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What We Have Learned from Publishing 200 Podcast Episodes | Ep. 201 | Business Podcast

What We Have Learned from Publishing 200 Podcast Episodes | Ep. 201 | Business Podcast

What We Have Learned from Publishing 200 Podcast Episodes | Ep. 201 | Business Podcast

What We Have Learned from Publishing 200 Podcast Episodes | Ep. 201 | Business Podcast
What We Have Learned from Publishing 200 Podcast Episodes | Ep. 201 | Business Podcast

Summary

Yesterday we publsihed our 200th epsiode of the EDGE Podcast. We launched the EDGE podcast on Monday July 6, 2020 and we’ve learned a lot along the way.

We originally launched with the name Build a Business Success Secrets. We figured out a few things about using a name that long the hard way,  did some interspection and brainstorming and changed it to EDGE. If you’re interested in the whole name change decision listen to episode 139 where we lay it all out.

Hello Friends.

Brandon:

Welcome to the Edge Today our director of operations, JIA joins us and she and I talked about the lessons we’ve learned from publishing 200 episodes of this podcast.

Brandon:

Welcome to the Edge podcast.

Brandon:

Your weekly playbook about the inner game of building a successful business making you a happier, healthier and richer business owner. And here’s your host, Brandon White. Today we are talking about what we learned from publishing 200 episodes which we published today. We’re recording this on monday. This will go live on Tuesday.

Brandon:

And We did 200 episodes.

Brandon:

I was looking JIA at when we started and we used, well we started With this version which started out has built a business success secrets and then we changed the name.

Brandon:

I forget what data have to look at that.

Brandon:

But we launched the podcast in July on July six 2020.

Brandon:

Such a long time ago now, 15 months.

Brandon:

So we’ve averaged now we’re publishing five days a week.

Brandon:

I think back then we were publishing monday wins.

Brandon:

Yeah, three days a week.

Gia:

Back then or two days a week.

Brandon:

I’m looking here what we were doing.

Brandon:

But It was at least two or 3 episodes a week and now we’re doing five but I put together a list so you can chime in whenever of what we learned.

Brandon:

Number one solo episodes are much harder than conversations.

Brandon:

I think the conversations are easy.

Brandon:

We don’t edit them unless there’s something crazy said or thumbs and so’s and things like that or try to take out.

Brandon:

But solo episodes for me are much harder and you have to plan significantly more.

Brandon:

I used to try to wing it and just have a conversation but they’re super hard.

Brandon:

I find myself talking slow.

Brandon:

So there’s a ton of editing that you have to do and with no plan and no one to talk to, it doesn’t work well.

Brandon:

Yeah, I think the only times that we’ve ever been behind schedule with publishing and editing and all of the assorted production tasks that go into making the newsletters of the where when you were trying to do solo episodes yourself before we started planning and you know, looking ahead and down the schedule is like, okay, well this is what we’re gonna talk about then.

Brandon:

And we have, you know, some notes and some personal experience and we actually write it all down so that you have a guideline to follow when you’re, you know, when you’re actually recording them too to read off of to just keep yourself moving so that, you know, there aren’t those long pauses and there aren’t those arms and it definitely helped a lot.

Brandon:

Plus I can really attest to the fact I know you say it all the time, but I don’t know how many of the listeners out there still don’t quite believe you the conversation episodes really aren’t scripted.

Brandon:

We’ve actually had guests that reached out to us and I wanted to be on the show and wanted to do practice runs before their official interview recorded and everything and Brandon tells them no, we’re not interested.

Brandon:

That’s not how this podcast works.

Brandon:

That’s not what our listeners like to hear.

Brandon:

And I’m not interested in doing some overproduced super fake marketing crap.

Brandon:

You know, I’m more than happy to help you get your brand out there and I’m more than happy to give you some publicity and you know, I want to talk to you, but I’m not gonna I’m not going to pull a fast one on the listeners, like you just won’t do it.

Gia:

So and the solo, you know, that makes the conversation episodes a lot easier when they’re just organic like that.

Gia:

And the solo episodes so much harder because there isn’t anybody to to bounce off of.

Gia:

Yeah.

Gia:

I actually also liked, we’ve kept some of these episodes recently, the conversations to an hour having done some of them in the early days.

Brandon:

I’m looking through as we’re talking right now.

Gia:

Some of the conversations went two and 3 hours and they were better conversations in the first hour.

Gia:

You you’re really unless you already know the person, you’re just starting to get a conversation started.

Gia:

We did that because we do carry him on That Comcast channel here on the coast that I think reaches 80,000 homes, but and we needed to make them think 57 minutes or whatever they’re supposed to be 53 minutes and I started a time for television.

Gia:

Yeah.

Gia:

And I instead of trying to edit them significantly down to that time, I’ve tried to make them that.

Gia:

But I will say that the conversations aren’t, they’re good and they’re fulfilling.

Gia:

But You find yourself for the 1st 20 minutes.

Gia:

I’ve noticed on when we do the friday episode with Danielle, it takes Danielle and I, Even though we’ve done a whole bunch of episodes together, probably 15 or 20 minutes just talk about things to get things going.

Gia:

You could certainly jump right in.

Brandon:

My dad always says just get to the meat of it.

Brandon:

But you know the point of the show is to drop in on a conversation that we’re having and be able to do that.

Brandon:

I was listening to lex Freeman who is a podcaster and a scientist at M.

Brandon:

I.

Brandon:

T.

Brandon:

And he has a pretty interesting podcast, I don’t like all the gas but he has some interesting topics and he was saying that he had a chance to interview eric Schmidt from google and Henry Kissinger who I think is like 83 now.

Brandon:

But they had limited him To only being able to do 40 minutes and he basically said no because his format is longer into the three hour range they’re putting out I think one episode or maybe two episodes a week.

Brandon:

But anyway we’re the conversations are way easier.

Brandon:

The scripted ones are hard when we did some series it became easier when we did the how to build a business plan, how to build an elevator pitch, what else did we do, how to build a investor pitch deck.

Brandon:

We did one with Kelly about the Mind Mastery series.

Gia:

We didn’t publish that on the podcast actually, that was nine days to turn yourself into a powerhouse series.

Brandon:

That wasn’t on the podcast, but it wasn’t, no kelly’s on the podcast, but we didn’t publish that.

Brandon:

That’s a course.

Brandon:

Think we’re going to release that course as a part of the bundle for the newsletter.

Brandon:

Stay tuned everybody.

Brandon:

It’s good stuff.

Brandon:

I listen to the whole thing.

Brandon:

That’s incredible.

Brandon:

Kelly is truly an amazing person.

Brandon:

Yes, we recorded it live during Covid with conversation and then kelly and I actually re recorded it with just she and I and went straight through.

Brandon:

So that’s the way we’ll probably put those versions on.

Brandon:

But the, when we re recorded it obviously doesn’t have a bunch of conversation and things like that from the audience in it, which makes it a little bit quicker and you get the content.

Brandon:

So yeah, that’s been sitting up, saw that this weekend and sitting in the folder here that we need to put into the LMS and yeah, I think we’ll release that with the newsletter bundle.

Brandon:

Anyway, back to what we learned.

Brandon:

That was a lot on solo episode number two.

Brandon:

The only way to be consistent is the plan.

Brandon:

I think that’s a blinding flash of the obvious that most of us know and you and I know JIA, but unless you take the time to sit down and do it, it won’t get done.

Brandon:

I think how many hours did we spend a few weeks ago when you were here?

Brandon:

All of them?

Brandon:

Yeah, that was a whole, basically a week of planning and now we have our episodes planned out.

Brandon:

I’m looking at our sheet until february.

Brandon:

Yeah, that March four.

Gia:

Yeah, no, it’s through february, We’re not done through March were done through february, the end of the story and just having that plan and not only that, that’s not just what episodes we have, but also the planning for the solo episodes which we are doing tips, Tuesday tips, thursday tips and we already have the content for that completed as well, which just makes it easier.

Brandon:

So you’ve got, you’ve got a plan, it’s hard.

Gia:

No one likes to do it.

Brandon:

I mean, I think I like to do it, but taking the time to do it can be painful.

Brandon:

But in order to be consistent, you gotta do that where you’re going to get behind and that’s just the truth with anything.

Brandon:

But especially when you’re doing a podcast that has a production schedule, these things aren’t just as simple as record it and publish it.

Gia:

It gets put, I don’t know, we can talk about that now.

Brandon:

Get out.

Brandon:

I think, I think before we even move on, if anybody’s listening and thinking, okay, well you know, maybe I don’t need to be consistent because I don’t have time to plan and something else is always going to come up and you know, I’ll just record him and I’ll just put them out when I have time.

Brandon:

It’s, we learned the hard way in the beginning, especially it’s next to impossible to grow a podcast if you do not stick to a consistent schedule, the people who listen to your podcast want to have some sense of predictability of when they can expect the new episode, what they can expect that episode to touch on and the general format, you know, how long is it going to be?

Brandon:

It’s really hard to swing back and forth from five minute episodes, 23 hour episodes and we’ve done it before.

Brandon:

So we definitely know that that’s something different types of episodes definitely get more lessons than others.

Brandon:

But at the same time, our audience also those to expect that at this point our audience expects that, you know, we have long form conversation episodes that air on monday and Wednesday, shorter episodes air on Tuesday and thursday and then we have a live episode every friday, you know, it’s the same schedule every week.

Brandon:

And that has really been key to growing our audience to growing the podcast in general, just having that level of predictability for the listeners.

Brandon:

Yeah, I agree.

Brandon:

That would be like ted lasso coming out randomly.

Brandon:

Yeah, exactly, you’re gonna stop watching because you’re going to like, well I don’t know when the next episode is going to come out and I don’t want to get hooked on and then just it just drops off his lyrics.

Brandon:

I think that’s true.

Brandon:

Almost anything we’ve seen that which I have email lists have an email list.

Brandon:

But I think that’s the true was even email random emails.

Brandon:

I think that put into spam because the human mind doesn’t understand when they’re coming.

Brandon:

And if there’s not some level of predictability you’re like, oh this is just random.

Brandon:

So I’m just going to delete it or unsubscribe.

Gia:

So I agree with that.

Brandon:

Yeah, I think about it in general.

Gia:

Just with anything with an email and a phone call with literally anything people don’t like to be sneak attacked.

Brandon:

We just we don’t like it.

Brandon:

So don’t sneak attack your listeners with content, otherwise they’re going to ignore it.

Brandon:

Yeah.

Brandon:

It’s just hard.

Brandon:

It’s hard to be consistent.

Brandon:

And that sort of builds on my number three note that I took down that we found, which was you will not get noticed right away.

Brandon:

It won’t happen overnight.

Brandon:

And I was looking at some statistics, reading some statistics this weekend prepping for this recording and it turns out that The statistics that people put out there.

Brandon:

They say there’s two million podcasts.

Brandon:

The truth of the matter is it’s something like, Let me see.

Brandon:

I don’t know if I still have that tag pulled up, but less than half of them have more than 10 episodes and something like 5% or less have 100 episodes.

Brandon:

So there’s a lot of one and guns Or two and done or three and done or usually the pain starts around seven or 10 and they people just don’t, don’t do it.

Gia:

So when people talk about podcast and there’s a ton of competition and all that, there’s a lot of competition, but it’s not nearly as much as other platforms and most of these podcasts just go to the wasteland because people don’t follow through or maybe they just do one podcast because they’re doing an event or something.

Gia:

But either which way you’re not going to get noticed right away.

Gia:

It’s the analogy of you hear about a series, let’s say there’s some series.

Gia:

Ted Lasso.

Gia:

I didn’t hear about ted Lasso.

Brandon:

Not that I didn’t see it, but I didn’t really get enough recommendations that would prompt me to watch that show Until episode two or 3 or whatever.

Gia:

It’s on, it was not episode one, it was at least two episodes.

Brandon:

And I think that happens with a lot of people unless you’re just happened to be in that first wave.

Brandon:

But how many times have you heard about a series and then go on to netflix and binged on it for three seasons.

Brandon:

So you gotta you gotta be there and it takes a minute to for people to get the word out and you’ve got to prove that you’re putting on a good show that and I mean ted lasso, God, that’s Apple tv which has the, what’s, what’s that market cap this morning, $2.7 trillion worth of marketing power and an a list celebrity like Jason Sudeikis starring in the show and you still needed a couple episodes worth of social proof to determine whether or not it was worth your time.

Brandon:

That’s crazy.

Brandon:

And to expect that you’re going to put together a podcast by yourself, you know, likely in the beginning you’re going to be doing your own editing, you’re not going to have crazy good equipment yet.

Brandon:

You’re still going to be working out your learning curve and figuring out what your niche is and deciding on your tags and everything and you expect to just go viral overnight.

Brandon:

You can set yourself up for failure like that.

Gia:

You can’t expect something unrealistic like that and expect not to discourage yourself.

Gia:

You know, you have to keep your expectations realistic and you’re going to have a much much better time keeping the consistency and not throwing in the towel.

Gia:

Yes, there you go.

Brandon:

You’re not gonna get noticed overnight.

Brandon:

So you got to keep going even if you feel like you’re talking to yourself number four, having good equipment matters because of the sound quality.

Brandon:

I think that this is absolutely true.

Brandon:

I don’t think you need to spend as much money as we’ve spent on all the equipment or building a studio or anything like that, but you’ve got to have a good mike and you’ve got to be, even if you’re mike, even if you’re using airpods, the key is not to be in a room that has echoes.

Brandon:

So a lot of people will do it in their closet or something like that.

Brandon:

But that’s what it takes because poor sound quality, nobody wants to listen to sound quality.

Brandon:

That sucks.

Brandon:

It just doesn’t sound good, especially when a lot of people are listening in their earphones and that’s, you know, there’s no other sound but someone’s voice or voices in it and you have crappy sound just, it just doesn’t work.

Brandon:

You’ve got to have a decent sound environment.

Brandon:

Like I said, you could record in arab but it’s probably and do okay, but you can get a decent mike for 100 or 200 bucks and it’s made all the difference in our show, we get compliments all the time.

Brandon:

People say, wow, your voice is so there and I can’t wait until we can actually record in person because doing it over zoom like we are now can’t control the other person’s environment as well.

Brandon:

So, but you’ve got to have decent equipment.

Brandon:

And more importantly, when I say equipment, I also mean the room and the recording because Just No one wants to hear about sound, Especially you’re right listening in your headphones, you you don’t want to have that buzzing in your ear, that’s right in your ear from your headphones.

Brandon:

It’s annoying.

Brandon:

It’s frustrating and yeah you’re absolutely right that you don’t have to spend as much as we spent.

Brandon:

I can totally attest to the fact that to our listeners, you guys will remember from a while back the episode that Brandon did about how customer service can totally change your entire business with audio mute, the soundproofing panels that he has for the recording studio.

Brandon:

Well let me tell you, Brandon discovered that audio mute existed and I think you are now the only person keeping audio mute in business.

Brandon:

There’s soundproofing panels in multiple rooms of the house, not even just the recording studio, the paneling that you guys see behind him.

Brandon:

If you’re watching the video reporting podcast, that’s all soundproofing panels, there’s three on the right wall, there’s so excuse me there’s four on the right wall, there’s one on the left wall and two on the ceiling.

Brandon:

And you can you can probably accomplish similar if not perfect results with less.

Brandon:

I have a friend who is a starving artist musician and he started recording his songs.

Brandon:

He hung down comforters on his walls to do his soundproofing and that’s where he started, he’s doing a lot better now.

Brandon:

But you know just just to prove the point that you can you can achieve quality sound on any budget.

Brandon:

You don’t you don’t have to go totally bananas buying soundproofing panels and buying recording studio time in L.

Brandon:

A.

Brandon:

And everything you can absolutely be rich for cheaper if that’s if that’s something that you’re going to let be a deterrent for you.

Gia:

I’ve removed that area.

Gia:

Yeah I think and you can’t just no hard floor low ceiling things like that make a difference.

Gia:

And I guess we can include it now because you mentioned it when we were getting ready to record is that we do post process in Dolby and it does require a little bit of programming but it has made a big difference.

Gia:

It cleans up a tremendous amount of sound mostly from guests that we do like you are on zoom right now because that audio just isn’t as good.

Gia:

But you can do post processing and if you’re not good at that then you should pay someone to do the editing.

Gia:

I’ll comment on that is we do have a podcast editor who is great.

Gia:

Who does?

Gia:

It took awhile to find him.

Brandon:

I did edit it in the beginning and I still occasionally edit episodes if for some reason we do get behind but it’s a good practice in the beginning because you get to hear yourself and you become a better speaker because of it.

Brandon:

If you don’t have a teleprompter it is hard to speak without using fillers and all of these things.

Brandon:

But listening to yourself will make you a much better speaker and you can learn how to do it.

Brandon:

It’s not rocket science.

Brandon:

If you have an apple computer use garageband, that’s what we use here.

Brandon:

Don’t have to have a professional editing piece of software.

Brandon:

So I encourage that in the beginning just to learn to hear yourself speak.

Brandon:

But otherwise you should pay someone to do the editing because it takes a tremendous amount of time.

Brandon:

And having good editors can really even if you don’t use dull B to do post processing, you can still produce good sound.

Brandon:

I think we covered that have good equipment.

Brandon:

That was a lot number five After about 100 episodes people will come to you to be on the show.

Brandon:

So in the beginning of anything that’s the truth whether you’re running a podcast, whether you have a product, whatever it is, people just it’s hard it’s hard to get recognition and it’s the chicken or the egg.

Brandon:

You want to have gas because you want your show to be good.

Brandon:

But guests don’t want to come on if you don’t have good guests in the past.

Brandon:

So it’s you got to really make this press to get some good guests.

Brandon:

And we’ve been lucky.

Brandon:

We’ve had good guess that a level guest that help de risk it for other people and also having episodes out there and reviews, reviews do help.

Brandon:

I don’t know about the ranking.

Brandon:

There’s a lot of debate on Apple podcast if the customer feedback really affects it or not.

Brandon:

But what it does affect and we’ve heard this is from Agents out there who read those reviews and just having a lot of episodes, if you have 10 episodes You’re a new podcast.

Brandon:

If you have 20 year new, if you know it’s like having 20 customers, you’re still new.

Brandon:

If you get 100 people at least know that you’re committed and consistent.

Brandon:

And then I think, you know, once you get 100 and 5200 plus people start to say, okay, this even if even if you didn’t have quote unquote A level guests, people would take a risk, so to speak to be on there because they know after that many episodes you are getting some sort of traffic.

Brandon:

Yeah.

Brandon:

And it was really crazy to after about 100 episodes, like you said, it was like somebody flipped on a switch.

Brandon:

We were getting contact.

Brandon:

There was nobody, no emails, No.

Brandon:

Hey, I heard your podcast and I’d love to be a guest.

Gia:

This is what I think I can offer your listeners nothing after 100 episodes, I don’t know about you, but I get probably four or five emails a day from agents asking to place their people on the podcast.

Gia:

And that becomes a whole challenge in and of itself sifting through people and determining who do we think is actually going to have anything to offer to our audience who’s legit, who’s just trying to get on here and spew a bunch of marketing crap and that, that becomes, that becomes a whole job in and of itself and you have to be really careful there.

Gia:

It seems you have gone too many bad guests on your show.

Gia:

People are like, well this, they’re not delivering quality content to me anymore, I wanna listen anymore and you’re gonna sink your ship Brianna.

Gia:

The consistency, all these tips kind of go hand in hand with the fact that you have to be consistent.

Gia:

But you know when you, when you, when your consistency, it’s about 100 episodes finding people to talk to you on your podcast gets a lot easier.

Gia:

Yes.

Gia:

And if that’s your format, I think the other thing of as I’m listening to you, you have to know is what your show is about and you’ve got to stay consistent with that in this show.

Gia:

It’s for business owners, we want to make business owners smarter, healthier and richer and we want to have guests on who are willing to talk about the truth and pull back the curtain on lessons they’ve learned mistakes they’ve made in success, they’ve had and share it with the audience and anything less than that.

Gia:

We’re just not interested.

Gia:

It doesn’t mean it’s not good, it may be fine content.

Brandon:

Maybe there’s a marketing show out there that has all the market or people on it, which is fine or we’re not heavy on coaches appearing on this show.

Brandon:

I want business owners who have a business with a product that they sell not all service businesses and coaching.

Brandon:

There’s a plethora of coaches out there were more interested in people who were built businesses with products that I would say are more product based than service based, so to speak.

Brandon:

But having to do the research on people, it takes time to, so you’ve got to just you just gotta decide what your show is.

Brandon:

If you’re not going to be interviewing isn’t for everybody interview or or having a conversation can be hard, it’s not for me it’s natural, but for some people it’s not.

Brandon:

So if you’re going to do a solo episode and you’re going to which there’s some great shows out there with solo episodes, you’re just going to have to decide on, that’s what you’re going to do and then you’re going to have to come up with a plan to plan For those things because to make a 30 minute episode solo episode, you know, you’re you’re going to have at least two hours invested in that thing.

Brandon:

If you’re going to make a good show that and I will say, I will add one of the things Brandon also, you like authors as guests as well, business owners that are generally running more product based businesses and authors a fun fact about Brandon for everyone.

Brandon:

He’s usually reading at least three books at once.

Brandon:

So he likes to talk to authors.

Brandon:

Yes.

Brandon:

I think authors who write books have done the research and have expertise.

Brandon:

That’s not I think it’s getting a little bit abused in the today’s internet age with everybody, quote unquote writing a book.

Brandon:

But yeah, I love I love authors.

Brandon:

They’ve researched it and they’ve become experts.

Brandon:

There’s just no way not to become an expert when you write a book.

Brandon:

It’s really hard.

Brandon:

So do you like talking to authors?

Brandon:

That is true.

Brandon:

Yeah.

Brandon:

Everybody listening is an author email.

Brandon:

Brandon can be on the podcast go number six.

Brandon:

Have any email list is essential to remind people I think have an email list for whatever company you’re building is absolutely key.

Brandon:

You have to own your own audience.

Brandon:

If you get on a social network, this has been said before.

Brandon:

But it’s worth mentioning again because people forget you get on the social networking platform, you have all these, if you work really hard to get these followers, they are going to charge you to reach your own followers eventually because they have to make money.

Brandon:

I’m not beating on them.

Brandon:

That’s just the way it works.

Brandon:

Coming from a guy who did run social networking site.

Brandon:

So that’s what you’ve got to do and you need to own your own audience and email is still a great platform to do that.

Brandon:

Excuse me.

Brandon:

I think text messaging will become great but I think it is more.

Brandon:

People see it as invasive still because it’s not the norm.

Brandon:

So when you get spammed you delete it, maybe you could use it every once in a while, especially if someone orders from you.

Brandon:

I think following up on that is fine.

Brandon:

If they opt into it, that’s fine.

Brandon:

But emails still here to stay for a while and owning your audience and being able to get to them is huge.

Brandon:

So you’ve got to figure out how to build that email list, whether that’s to have a capture form on your podcast page to promote it in your podcast or whatever that is.

Brandon:

And Then from, I was just telling you met the other day, I was like we sent an email out to the podcast listeners here, which I think after we cleaned it, I saw this weekend, it was 15,092 right now.

Brandon:

We did turn down our Facebook capture sequence for the minute while we make some changes to it, to monetize it instead of just sucking money out of us, which hopefully be done this week close after this weekend.

Brandon:

But the ability to sit in your kitchen And reach 15,000 people at the press of a button is pretty incredible.

Brandon:

I mean that’s crazy and to remind people, I think one thing dear, we’ve learned, you’ve been to a whole bunch of webinars seminars that we’ve that we do that sometimes I can’t do, but you do.

Brandon:

And one of those things that you have to remember is to advertise, so to speak, where your customers are and to advertise a podcast on a facebook ad, they’re not listening to podcasts, there might even know podcast and to switch from scrolling in their feed to listening to a podcast is a really huge hurdle to get someone to do.

Gia:

So you’ve got to figure out how to get a list and remind people, need to be reminded, they’re not going to look at their podcast app every two days, necessarily, your hardcore fans might, but you’re going to have to remind people and we see it when we remind people on the list, our downloads go up right well, having a healthy email list as we could go on for quite literally hours about the importance of maintaining a healthy email list and why you shouldn’t be afraid to remove subscribers that aren’t doing anything for you and everything.

Gia:

The email list is your, your main point of contact with your, with your listeners, with your customers, with your subscribers, with anybody.

Gia:

And so, you know, you’re a person that people talk to them, remind them just like you would remind a friend like, hey, I published a new episode, don’t forget to go listen to it.

Gia:

You know, it’s, it’s the same exact thing, you’re just doing it via email and you know, if you’re sitting there thinking, You know, well, my young on the list only has 600 people on it, you know, there’s no point in me sending out an email.

Gia:

It’s only 600 people.

Gia:

If you were sitting in your kitchen at 600 people walked in your front door and we’re like, hey what are you doing?

Gia:

You would be entirely overwhelmed.

Gia:

600 people is absolutely worth reaching out to.

Brandon:

It doesn’t have to be 15,000 people.

Brandon:

But yeah, to Brandon’s point, it is pretty incredible the number of people that you can reach just by clicking on a keyboard and then pushing a button on the screen.

Brandon:

But we see the proof’s in the pudding the proof of the numbers and the statistics.

Brandon:

We see huge boosts in the number of downloads and the number of listens just when Brandon sends out a reminder email and they’re not complicated.

Brandon:

It’s just, hey, I published a new episode.

Brandon:

This is what it’s about.

Brandon:

Listen, when you have a few minutes it’s all it is simple.

Brandon:

Yeah, it doesn’t take actually, I think shorter emails are better these days.

Brandon:

Especially if you can get to the point.

Brandon:

I think people, I don’t, if somebody sends me short emails, I’m usually not going to get off their list.

Brandon:

Even if it if I, I am not overly enthusiastic about the list Because I don’t have to scroll down and read 7000 words.

Brandon:

So I think if you could do it fast, people will appreciate that and they’ll be grateful for the reminder And this really builds on the 7th thing that I had that we learned?

Brandon:

Which is you have to get your customers where they already are buying like products and for podcast it means which we still haven’t completely figured out, I don’t think is and maybe we’re going to advertise on Spotify and maybe that’s the way because people are already listening to podcasts.

Brandon:

So you want to advertise on those mediums where they already are?

Brandon:

And I think podcasting been one that has been tough because there’s not that many platforms you can’t advertise on apple podcasts.

Brandon:

Although that would probably come eventually on Spotify.

Brandon:

You can we haven’t tried it yet, but I think that’s the case with any product.

Brandon:

Sometimes you have a great product and you’re just not getting it in the right place where customers who buy that product are located and that’s been a challenge for podcasts.

Brandon:

So it’s really been guerilla marketing word of mouth.

Brandon:

I think we can comment now on you were talking about how we used headliner but we do post on social media, but I’m not sure.

Brandon:

I don’t know what you think you and I talk about it every monday in our monday meeting.

Brandon:

Is it?

Brandon:

We do it.

Brandon:

It’s like half your advertising.

Brandon:

Don’t know works or doesn’t work.

Brandon:

We still do it to put it out there in hopes that somebody will grab it.

Brandon:

The question is is the really there to do it in your social media, you almost need to do it.

Brandon:

But how much are why do we get for the effort?

Brandon:

I’m not clear yet.

Gia:

What do you think?

Gia:

It’s one of those things where I’m kind of I had myself convinced that the reason that it hasn’t paid off as much as I want it to have paid off for the amount of effort that I put into it is because we have not crack to the threshold yet for the pump to prime itself.

Gia:

And that’s what I that’s what I’m telling myself.

Brandon:

Well, I can’t, I think the challenges, we can’t say that we don’t know if it works or doesn’t work.

Brandon:

We just don’t feel like it works as much because we don’t see necessarily the boost.

Brandon:

But the question is, is when you make the blog post, we do no work right?

Brandon:

We see long tail ECM traffic.

Gia:

We see a ton of traffic.

Brandon:

One of the most searched.

Brandon:

One of the most search for terms That our blog is at the top of the search results for is from a podcast episode and its corresponding blog post that was episode # 82.

Brandon:

So over 100 episodes ago and that blog post is still the number one thing that gets traffic to our website.

Brandon:

Yes.

Brandon:

So I will say that doing your blog post and doing making sure it’s seO optimized.

Brandon:

I know for a fact that that has long lasting return.

Brandon:

And the thing about that is you don’t necessarily see that right away.

Brandon:

You can see it right away if you get your title right and you get all those things right.

Brandon:

But the long tail on that is it just can’t be underestimated.

Brandon:

So I don’t think any time that we put on that is wasted.

Brandon:

I think we don’t understand yet enough because we don’t have the same tracking on these social media images that we put out there.

Brandon:

So I mean we post it.

Brandon:

Maybe someone finds it, find the one we posted three months ago today on facebook and we get the traffic but we we can’t attribute it.

Brandon:

And some listeners out there and say, well why don’t you put a tracking link?

Brandon:

Well, a lot of these websites now penalize you if you what did we use?

Brandon:

Uh what we used to use.

Brandon:

It wasn’t like tree, it was oh was it was orange and black.

Brandon:

Yeah, whatever it was.

Brandon:

We used to use a link tracking thing and we got you get penalized, they’re not going to show it because they want their own tracking in there.

Brandon:

So you and and you get your own tracking.

Brandon:

If you if you surprise surprise boost the post, which costs money, which we generally do not boost those posts.

Brandon:

Maybe maybe we should try that and see if that has an effect because we do have a lot of followers out there on all these networks.

Brandon:

But the truth of the matter is is we just don’t know yet.

Brandon:

But the blog post definitely does pay off.

Brandon:

But going back to the point, you got to advertise where your customers already are buying the like product.

Brandon:

You can’t, you know, you don’t advertise a car in a bicycle shop.

Brandon:

I mean maybe you do put the bike rack on, but not really.

Brandon:

No, you don’t do that when you don’t give him, give him a Better one.

Brandon:

You don’t, you don’t advertise a fishing lawyer in a place that sells luxury handbags.

Brandon:

Yeah, I mean it just doesn’t people, I mean no overlap.

Brandon:

Not, maybe you catch a husband, but that’s likely just not a smart thing.

Brandon:

So you’ve got to figure that out for your product.

Brandon:

Those were the seven things I have.

Brandon:

Do you have anything that you wanted to add here?

Brandon:

I just had one half bonus thing about tip number seven about reaching people where they already are.

Brandon:

You have to be willing and dedicated to experimenting with that.

Brandon:

It’s easy for us to sit here and say, Oh yeah, you have to reach your podcast listeners where they are, we have 200 episodes worth of trial and error to be able to say that and have some sort of reasonable certainty of where we think our listeners are, you know, when you’re starting out from scratch, you’re not going to guess right on the first try law of averages began, you’re not going to guess right on the first try.

Brandon:

So we were using this piece of software called headliner and we were making gifts to share on social media about the podcast.

Brandon:

So that way people could hear a particularly interesting clip of any one of the episodes and we thought, well, you know, we’ll get them hooked and you know, they’ll click on the link and I want to listen to the episode and they were doing worse than just still images one because social media sites weren’t rewarding the gifts with visibility the same way they were rewarding images.

Brandon:

Just because for SEO purposes, images are more desirable I guess for whatever reason, the person who makes that decision decided.

Brandon:

But you know, we tried them out for three months, figured out they weren’t working.

Gia:

And instead of being discouraged about it saying it’s stupid and quitting just like, alright, fine, we’ll just go back to images.

Gia:

We were doing it before we’ll do it again.

Gia:

That’s clearly what people wanna see.

Gia:

That’s what social media sites want to promote for us.

Gia:

So that’s what we’ll do.

Gia:

And you just, you have to have a, you have to really try your hardest to not have an emotional reaction to that whole trial and error process.

Gia:

Otherwise you’re gonna burn yourself out, which I find ironic because they should reward videos and things that keep people engaged for a longer time.

Gia:

I don’t know, maybe, you know, maybe we didn’t do it right.

Gia:

But I felt like a lot of effort for something that wasn’t like you said it was performing worse.

Gia:

I don’t, I can’t explain that.

Brandon:

And believe me, I was not amused.

Brandon:

We could do a separate podcast if everybody expresses some sort of interest at the amount of frustration and time that went into making those little headliner videos.

Brandon:

It wasn’t a decision that worked hard.

Brandon:

It wasn’t as easy as they advertised, wasn’t, It was not and they were about the videos and audio files that they would accept.

Brandon:

They had to be in a specific format and they couldn’t be over a certain file size and the audio couldn’t be over a certain time.

Brandon:

And we had more than one podcast episode where I had to manually top half an hour off the end of the episode so that it could be processed by headliners so that I could make the video so they can make the image so that it can make the animation etcetera etcetera etcetera.

Brandon:

And yeah, we still have all of those files because I absolutely refused to get rid of them but which were, we did put them out there.

Brandon:

But it was, it seemed like it seemed like a lot of work and then I had some people contact us.

Brandon:

They wrote me, maybe they wrote you too and they were gonna make them for us and it was like $20 or $40 please.

Brandon:

And I was like, I don’t understand how you think the math we, we put out five episodes a week.

Brandon:

I mean if you maybe if you’re doing, you know, if you’re accepting advertising on your podcast, which you certainly can do, we don’t have anything other than our own internal advertising, so to speak at the end of the episodes on there for our newsletter.

Brandon:

But I just don’t understand that math.

Brandon:

If you get a podcast editor, you could pay 40 to $100 an episode to get it edited, then you’ve got to have All the images.

Brandon:

I mean you spend $200.

Brandon:

I mean if you’re a big corporation, maybe that makes sense for you or you have an email list of a million people.

Brandon:

Once we get to a million people and technically you’re doing, If you’re okay, marketer doing $1 million dollars a month off that list alone with your podcast.

Brandon:

That probably economics makes sense.

Brandon:

But in the early days that just done that just don’t make sense.

Brandon:

So I don’t know that.

Brandon:

I recommend that.

Brandon:

I think you gotta have, you gotta make, I will say this.

Brandon:

I don’t know if you agree, but having the individual images per episode do make a difference for your Absolutely yeah.

Brandon:

That’s been awesome.

Brandon:

Since we’ve started doing that.

Brandon:

I would, I would be interested to see that.

Brandon:

I don’t want to tell them.

Brandon:

I want to see maybe somebody email, if you can pinpoint if you noticed when we made the change well and it helps when the people promote the people on the podcast promote the podcast because their images up there and not mine, which doesn’t make any sense to put my image up there because the people that they’re sending it out to don’t know me, they know them and, and we built a template that I think you’ve been able to build them relatively quickly, haven’t you?

Brandon:

Yes, I will Toot my own horn just a little bit about it.

Brandon:

I did a really good job on that temple and I bang those out so fast now.

Gia:

Yeah, I think they help, we haven’t, You know, next for us will be YouTube.

Gia:

That’ll be 20, I think we, I think we have probably At least 70 episodes that Jenna had edited for us and I just haven’t gotten up there.

Gia:

So Yeah, no, she was very, she was very fast when she was working for us.

Brandon:

Um, I think that, yeah, I think we had somewhere in the ballpark.

Brandon:

It’s more than 70, I think 70-80 what I would guess.

Brandon:

We got to get them up there and Youtube will be a good, I think will be good for us.

Brandon:

We got to figure out how to do it.

Gia:

I got a lead on a video editor for us Jenna, our video editor was awesome shout out to her.

Brandon:

She got a job working full time for a bigger youtube channel than us, which were not non existent, but bigger media company.

Gia:

We’re sad to have her go because she was awesome, but she did a great job for us and we’re going to look for a new video editor who I think we might have someone because I think youtube is important, It will become more important over time.

Gia:

Second biggest search engine, tons of opportunity, there lots of junk still out there, at least for the search terms that we have been wanting to optimize for.

Gia:

So I think there’s an opportunity, anything else before we wrap up my last note about headliners and I want to bash it too hard.

Brandon:

It’s entirely possible that the video GIF format could work better on Youtube or on Tiktok or whatever.

Brandon:

We might not have just been using it the way that it was intended to be used.

Brandon:

I don’t want to scare anybody away from trying that because it might work for your audience.

Brandon:

I know it, I think so.

Brandon:

I just wanted to clarify that.

Brandon:

I think that’s good.

Brandon:

I mean it’s built into Lipson who is our podcast hosting and you’re right, we promote on facebook instagram linkedin.

Gia:

We have not done tick tock and you’re right.

Brandon:

It could work great on Tiktok, who knows, it’s a video sharing platform, the headliner makes or snapshot.

Brandon:

Maybe it’s not, I don’t know, we just haven’t can’t do everything got to pick the ones you’re doing.

Brandon:

I think we do twitter, don’t we do twitter?

Brandon:

We do twitter.

Gia:

Yeah, maybe our biggest one is the biggest one is like them though.

Gia:

I mean what better place to communicate with other business owners than the social media network for businesses?

Gia:

I think the key there is being consistent.

Brandon:

I’ve noticed which I know I’m responsible for doing, but there’s been a good experiment because when I was posting regularly we get a few 1000 views and then when I stop now it’s like trickling in.

Brandon:

So I got to go back to doing that.

Brandon:

But we have several 1000 followers at least my personal page does.

Brandon:

So I think that’ll be good And that’s a wrap.

Brandon:

That’s what we learned from doing 200 Episodes.

Brandon:

We’ll tune in again.

Brandon:

I don’t know.

Brandon:

Maybe we’ll do more when we get to 500.

Brandon:

I think that’ll be a good, it will be a next good milestone.

Brandon:

I think so too.

Brandon:

All right.

Gia:

Thanks Garcia.

Brandon:

Hi, Hi everyone.

Brandon:

Thanks for being generous with your time and joining us for this episode of the edge before you go.

Brandon:

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Gia:

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