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Entrepreneur Wills Her Way to Success - Amelia Lin Tells Her Journey to Co-Founding Saga: Business Podcast

Entrepreneur Wills Her Way to Success – Amelia Lin Tells Her Journey to Co-Founding Saga: Business Podcast

Entrepreneur Wills Her Way to Success – Amelia Lin Tells Her Journey to Co-Founding Saga: Business Podcast

BUSINESS PODCAST- Entrepreneur Wills Her Way to Success - Amelia Lin Tells Her Journey to Co-Founding Saga
BUSINESS PODCAST- Entrepreneur Wills Her Way to Success – Amelia Lin Tells Her Journey to Co-Founding Saga

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Summary

How do you go from working with laser diffraction in a lab to getting a marketing job at a tech start up in Silicon Valley?

How do you go from running email and web marketing campaigns to becoming a product manager?

How do you go from product manager to becoming an Entrepreneur, CEO of a tech start-up and raising over $1million in your first effort?

You need to tune into Amelia’s story, be inspired, learn the secrets and make it happen for you!

You don’t want to miss this episode…

A full transcript of the episode is below.

Brandon:
Welcome to another episode of Build a Business Success Secrets Podcast. I am your host, Brandon C. White. Today we’ve got an awesome episode with Amelia Lin. Amelia and I met each other at a mastermind group that meets in Palo Alto, California and we hit it off. S he was raising money for her company. And I think we met on a Friday and three weeks later she had raised over a $1,000,000. It’s great story, but her story goes back beyond that that you’re gonna want to hear, because sometimes it’s a really windy path on how we find ourselves being an entrepreneur and Amelia’s story is no different. 

Brandon: 

It’s an incredible journey. And what you’re gonna love about Amelia is that you’re gonna listen to how she effectively wills her way to get what she envisions. 

Brandon: 

She sees it and she just wills her way. And I can’t even really describe what that is because you’ve got to hear how she explains it and how she actually does it. It’s really incredible. You’re gonna love this episode before we get started. 

Brandon: 

I want to remind you about my building Business Success Secrets newsletter. 

Amelia: 

that comes to your snail mail box every month, and it has mind, body and business articles. 

Brandon: 

So everything on how to train your mind for success, how to take care of your body with health tips and cool studies that I find that I put in there things that I’ve experimented with myself and, of course, business articles that I think you’ll enjoy everything from how to manage your marketing, how to build your financials and some other cool stuff that I find along the way. 

Brandon: 

Every month is delivered right to your snail mail so that you can read it while you’re eating breakfast, drinking coffee, whatever that may be. 

Brandon: 

And it’s not another screen. 

Brandon: 

It’s actually a piece of paper. Imagine that. But you’ll love it. I got a special offer. Check it out at B Success secrets dot com. 

Brandon: 

That’s be ism business success secrets dot com. So without any further do, let’s get to a meal, you’re gonna love this. I’m gonna stop talking. Let’s get to it. You’re gonna love Amelia. So here we go. 

Brandon: 

Everyone welcome to another episode of I am So Grateful Toe have familial in here from Saga and a 1,000,000 I met. 

Brandon: 

We were just talking about it before we jumped on here. I actually I actually said Amelia, we would spend, like, three months ago and she said, No, I don’t think it was three months ago. Brand. And I think it was in September, Right? Amillia? Yes. And it was we met at a mastermind group. I’ve talked about masterminds before. There’s they’re super cool. You meet super interesting people. Somehow I remember getting linked up with this group because of going through the Y C whatever program and I linked up. 

Brandon: 

And then Amelia and I hit it off. 

Brandon: 

And actually, I think it was the first medium. Ilya, you said, Oh, are you? 

Brandon: 

You go around the room and everybody tells what they’re doing and really says, Well, I’m going out to raise money next week. And this was a Friday and had her whole whole week look. And I was like, Hey, I’m happy to help you, like you want me to take a look at your decker? You said something when you heard my background like a when you look at it and I was like, Hey, you cannot go into this. You know. We got Amelia fixed up in, and then Amelia goes out and hits it out of the park and comes home with over a 1,000,000 bucks. But thank you so much for coming on a Friday. We’ll go into that story. But thank you so much for joining on a Friday afternoon and drinking that extra caffeine to keep us going. 

Brandon: 

I’m excited to be here. Yeah, thank you so much. Really. Everything along the way. You’ve been a huge part of the stringy. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, it’s been awesome. Toe watch. And you’ve been successful. So for all the listeners, I want to go back a little bit before we get the saga. 

Brandon: 

Because I think your story is really interesting in that you actually worked in corporate America for lack of a better way to put it here, here in Silicon Valley. And you really came across the country to come to the value. So how did you Can you take us back to that? 

Brandon: 

I know you went to business school and you did some stuff before then. 

Amelia: 

Like, how do you wind up living in Mountain View, California being the CEO and co founder of a start up. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, yeah. 

Amelia: 

So was I Grew up in Texas, and that’s where my family is. I actually I didn’t start in tech. I actually studied physics in undergrad, so I worked in, ah, lab research. I worked on nanotechnology, so I spent my days in labs working on very, very tiny things, very cool things, but things that probably would take decades to turn into reality that someone could could use. And, you know, for me, it’s always been about building. I love building things. I’ve always loved making things. And so I was incredibly inspired by the cool technology that I got to work on. But I really wanted to figure out that second half of the equation. You know, I wanted the things that I worked on to get beyond the four walls of the lab and into real people’s hands. 

Amelia: 

That was the first time that I really got interested. This was like an undergrad. 

Amelia: 

I really got interested in startups. I thought, This is fascinating. These people take ideas and you figure out how to make him riel, and they get them into the hands of everyday people and help them help that help that idea Thrive. That really fascinated me. So when I was an undergrad, I decided I was gonna take a summer and, ah, not working lives, Which is what I’ve been doing pretty much all the time. And I was gonna go work and started. 

Amelia: 

I totally fell in love with it. I loved that. We come up with an idea in the morning, and maybe it was live by the afternoon. I mean, that is so so different from to the lab science love research world. Ewing. We’re decade for results. And that was kind of how it started. After I graduated, I moved. Actually went straight out here. I’m Lou straight here after undergrad to Mountain View. And my first job was at a tiny start about here. It was about 17 people. And, yeah, I knew that there must be something about what made these things succeed that had to do with this quote unquote business. See stuff I don’t know anything about business. See stuff. You know, it was Felix, Major. 

Amelia: 

Whatever start up was that it was a It was a marketing start. 

Brandon: 

So we helped. We helped, like everyday small business owners like Mom and pop shops basically get into online marketing. We would automate the online marketing for them, so they didn’t have to get all confused about. Oh, my gosh. I’m looking at the Google AdWords interface. It’s just absolutely horrible. 

Amelia: 

So we that’s what we did. 

Amelia: 

So how do you know? I mean, and you know this now, a lot of people feel that they’re in this type of career, and there couldn’t be any different career, right? 

Brandon: 

I mean, you’re in physics in a lab in Texas or wherever you are, and and you decided to move to Silicon Valley. 

Brandon: 

So how do you convince them to get a marketing job, Amelia, Just 00 man. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, that was definitely kind of a little bit of an adventure. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Amelia: 

So I was on the East Coast, so I did my undergrad at Harvard. 

Brandon: 

So that’s where I was. And yeah, it definitely was a little bit of adventure, you know, trying to convince someone I was like, Hey, will you? 

Amelia: 

I thought the best way to learn about this, like, marketing stuff. I don’t know what marketing is. I think they write tag glides, but well, the best way to learn about them. Probably to get a job in it. I’m gonna learn to swim. I don’t drive. 

Amelia: 

Deepened and Ah, yeah, me too. Definitely. Imagine. You know, I was reaching out and saying, Hey, will you Time for a marketing job? Really? Your visits? 

Amelia: 

Nature. Thank you. So how did you bring my daddy? 

Brandon: 

Oh, well, so my pitch waas, I say, Look, I don’t know that much about marketing, but I’m good with numbers, and I’m good with data. Is there any part of your marketing where you could use someone who was good at that? Cause I I spent a lot of time looking at data and spreadsheets. I want to make that work. 

Amelia: 

And so that kind of ended up being a little bit of the opening was this would happen. Undergrad. I got an internship. So this is before my first full time job at a startup where they said, You know what? We’ve got all this customer data on purchases, and we kind of suspect that there might be something good in that. Nobody’s ever the time to look at it. You think you could do something with that? And I said, yeah, sure want you throw me in that. And so my internship was just like trawling through these enormous Excel spreadsheets I didn’t even know how to use. Excel it Well, So I had this manual next to me, and every time I tried to figure out something I would read about in the manual and try to figure out how to do in the spreadsheet. 

Amelia: 

But I ended up being able to tell them that there’s actually a very small fraction of their user base that was outsized. Responsible for most of the purchases was disproportionately where the revenue is coming from, but they were catering to the other 90%. I said. You really you really under capitalizing on building features into your game? 

Amelia: 

And here’s what I think you should build for them if you look at their purchase history and this is what this is what they’re really buying. It’s this thing where you have a a couple items, but I’m pretty sure if you made 10 more of these like you’d be, you’d be making money from these from these guys. And so that was kind of that was kind of my angle when I moved to Silicon Valley was I could be an especially data driven marketer for you, You know, if you like that. 

Amelia: 

And so this has happened to be a startup where homeless every single employee was an engineer was like a team. All engineers. They were, like, super nerdy. I think they really loved the idea. They were like, we’re gonna hire a super nerd for her for armor. Getting we’re gonna get a physics major do are murky. And that that was how I was when we first were actually shot. 

Amelia: 

That’s awesome. So how long were you there? 

Brandon: 

So I was there for about a year and 1/2 and they ended up getting acquired by Yahoo. That was what, like, beginning of 2013. 

Amelia: 

So it’s still pretty small at the time. You know, it was probably maybe 30 people. By the time that I left. I didn’t go to Yahoo. 

Amelia: 

Why? What made that decision for you? 

Brandon: 

I wanted to go to optimize Lee, so optimize Lee was Actually, it was a lot smaller at that time. So people kind of know it now is Oh, yeah, like it’s that website a B testing to about the time. Most people have no idea what it was. But I have been using their toe, actually been trying to convince our company use their tool because I thought was brilliant. 

Amelia: 

I thought it was a really cool product. And I loved what they were doing because I thought, what optimize you? I thought it was really cool, But optimizers, they were empowering everyday people and business owners with data. And I’m such a I’m such a nerd about that stuff. Like I mean, it was basically, like, you know, they’re doing the thing that I love. But trying to make it really accessible for people is drying behemoth companies like Amazon and Google and Netflix. Of course, they can have whole a B testing teams and build custom tools. But what if you got a block? Right? So I love that. I thought that was very, very cool. 

Amelia: 

So I actually am. Yeah, I pitched them. I hiring me, They did not have a position for be. So that’s another story. So how I could have a convince? I convinced them to hire me. 

Amelia: 

What? What? And what was the magic of that? 

Brandon: 

Oh, yeah. So I I definitely kind of pitch them on this. Look, I think it’s gonna your lost so much. 

Amelia: 

Like, you know, I feel like I feel like I just, like, convince people try to create businesses for me, but I was like, I think that you need a quantitative marketer, you know, You’re so I told her I said, You know, I think I could really add a lot of value to you. This is my skill set. And if that’s interesting to you, I think, I think that I I could add value. And I basically networks into the company’s I found people I knew who had connections into the company and a really good friend of mine into kind of vouching for me. And so that’s how I got the the interview. And yeah, I and you landed that job. 

Amelia: 

Did you? Did you use LinkedIn or anything, or did you just go through your network? Was there, You know, a lot of people tell me it. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people tell me, Emilio, like, hey, Brennan, you know all these people, we can’t replicate that. And the truth is, is that I I still replicate the persistence, right? 

Brandon: 

Like, I’ll find somebody that knows someone. I’ll figure that out. Whether I gotta use Facebook. LinkedIn, instagram Twitter, call three friends like isn’t that how it works? 

Brandon: 

I mean, that that is totally what I ended up doing. 

Brandon: 

And it’s essentially what I recommend people now to I mean, it was like, I tell people in, like if you can If you’re not trying to hide it from your employer, whatever. You’re on the job, hunt like post that on Facebook like I mean, I was every cut every every get together. I was at right. Someone’s birthday party. Whatever. Never social than you do you know people here? You people here Do you know people here Because you never know where that’s gonna come from? So I’m a huge believer in networking. I have actually, I have a cool chick. Gosh, I think it probably outdated now, But there used me this great feature on Facebook. 

Amelia: 

We’re in the search far. You could search friends who work at Pinterest. 

Amelia: 

You can also search friends of friends who work at Pinterest. It was basically like that late Millington, search for First order connection second or connections except I found was that because Facebook actually had people who I really was close to, the hit rate on me asking for interest. There was four times as high doing a ton of networking, searching through your Facebook. But yeah. Oh, when we get to the part where I tell you about how I got the job at UDACITY, then I’ll really have to tell you about the networking, the networking game and how he had that shot. 

Amelia: 

So let’s just let’s just sum this up. You do your undergraduate in physics, you’re working in a lab. 

Brandon: 

Something inside you decides that that ain’t gonna work because of timelines too long. 

Brandon: 

You over the summer of undergraduate school, you do an internship and you sell yourself as a physics person who’s good with data. 

Brandon: 

And then you convince after you get out of the lab, a company in Silicon Valley that your physics nerd that’s goes with data and can do marketing, which you have little to No experience that and and then they get acquired, and you decide that you don’t want to go to Yahoo that you basically want to work at this other company and convince them to create a position. 

Brandon: 

Yes, that’s that’s That’s pretty. That’s pretty. 

Amelia: 

Now your optimum it mildly. 

Amelia: 

And what happens? 

Brandon: 

So I saw Was it optimized Lee and yeah, I mean, it was it was a fantastic time. I mean, so I was there when I when I joined, was a lot smaller. 

Amelia: 

It was about 45 50 people, and it grew to 250 while I was there. 

Amelia: 

So quintupled in size, which was such a bizarre experience, rings I was still politically young, you know, I hadn’t been out of school that long, but by the end, I’ve been there eight, longer than 80% of people. And so people kind of looked at me and thought, you know, you’re through the veteran. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, Yeah, you’re an old timer. 

Amelia: 

You know, all these things, but you know, is really just the company was going so fast. It was incredible, incredible experience. You got to be part of kind of that that hypergrowth period of a company, definitely just some of the most sort of smartest and just the most amazing humans that I got to work with. 

Amelia: 

And I guess I should also say so. One part that you probably shouldn’t give me credit for in the previous in. The previous part of the story is I didn’t know we were gonna get acquired by Yahoo. 

Amelia: 

Oh, no, I I would figure that. I mean, yeah, wait. We hope for all about here, right? 

Brandon: 

It’s I had moved to optimize Lee, but I want to see maybe three months for the acquisition. So it wasn’t like I had a choice or something that was gonna yahoo, although, oh, God. 

Amelia: 

Although, frankly, I it probably wasn’t for me. 

Brandon: 

You know, I I really, really love working. I think How did that just that small company, But so I wasn’t optimized Lee and ah, yes. 

Amelia: 

Oh. So I had I was in a bit of an unusual situation. So when I was an undergrad and I had been thinking about have one learn how to do the start of things is really cool. I don’t know anything about business stuff, but I gather that some that’s important. I know what that is, but that seems important, actually play to business school during that time. 

Amelia: 

So I had applied for a deferred admission to Harvard Business School. 

Amelia: 

I was fortunate to get it. 

Amelia: 

And so I was in this very unusual position where I basically had this guaranteed admission for two years out when they were Yeah, it was It was it was just a great fit for what I wanted to do because I was pretty sure if I went straight to business school, I wasn’t understand anything. I just didn’t have any context. So I thought it would be good for me to go and get some work experience that I can come back to business school and that I’ll get a lot more value out of it. 

Amelia: 

And then So it is perfect because basically two years to go do whatever crazy thing I wanted to dio and that could be going working. 

Amelia: 

I started. I was like, What’s worse gonna happen from point, right? 

Amelia: 

Yes, right. 

Amelia: 

But while was it optimized Lee, the deadline came up and I was learning so much it optimized. I really didn’t want to go. And so I asked him if I could differ for another year. So I So I deferred for one more year. I had them push it to three years. But the three year deadline was coming around and they were saying, You know, you really got to tell us how you coming, coming or not. So, apparently apparently they don’t really do deferments for for fourth year s. I had to make this decision of my gonna go and make this very quiet meant pretty big change. 

Amelia: 

I’m gonna leave this place. I I’m really having a great time and I’m learning so much. And I love the people that work with the product that we work on and go to business school. Or I’m going to say I really agonized about that. I mean, really, I agonized over the decision and was very on the fence about it, but ultimately decided that I was going to go, which actually felt like a very risky decision at that time. 

Amelia: 

It’s funny, cause I think a lot of people think of business. School is the safe decision and they’re like, Oh, you know what? A cop out, like you went to school, You could It is for me. I was like, I’m leaving something. That’s really kind of fantastic people. I understand where so many people said, you know, why would you do this? You have a rocket ship. You don’t get off the rocket ship. March 20th is a school. 

Amelia: 

Yes. Why did you? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, In the end, it was a lot more for personal reasons. It was more for personal fulfillment than anything else. So here’s the thing. I am definitely someone who I love being exposed to a lawsuit from perspectives and ideas. 

Amelia: 

I really love that. And that’s how I learn. And that’s, you know, that’s what really excites me. 

Amelia: 

I had spent the entirety of my very short career up until that point, and he’s very specific. Very niche world. Just know Bay Area, like Silicon Valley Internet technology startups. That’s all I was only knew. And the thing was, this sort of blessing, but also sort of curse. I was liking it so much, I really could see myself doing that. Like I could see myself spending the rest of my life doing that. 

Amelia: 

And I thought, Wow, I could really be happy just just doing this. 

Amelia: 

But I did feel like Is that really good for me? 

Amelia: 

I’m not really im sure. I’m losing out on a lot of other perspectives. And so this idea of you know what if you just take two years, but forever two years, two years and you can always come back. But two years where you go and immerse yourself an environment where there’s gonna be a lot of other people, smart people. And they’re all thinking about the same questions and problems that you are that they’re gonna come at it from completely different backgrounds, a completely different perspectives. They’re probably gonna really challenge some of the things that that I believe and why believe them. 

Amelia: 

And then, you know what? You can always come after Silicon Valley. But I did feel like I was gonna feel more personally fulfills having done that. 

Amelia: 

So, yeah, I think that I probably went to business school for very different reasons from a lot of other people. 

Amelia: 

I wasn’t convinced that career wise it was gonna make or break things for me. As you probably know, I would say, having an MBA in Silicon Valley, that’s questionable. 

Amelia: 

Whether that really adds to your cell ability and some circles, it’s maybe the negative s. 

Amelia: 

I wasn’t going there for that. And, you know, if I wanted to get the start of experience, I should have just stayed where I waas So I really did have to kind of come to terms with the idea that if I was gonna make this decision had to be because it had to be because I want to do it personally. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, yeah, and I think that makes sense. 

Amelia: 

I mean, you and I talked a little bit about it and I went to business school for a lot of different reasons. 

Brandon: 

One is because that the career that I wasn’t at the time, which is entered capital actually, you sort of need the check box because everybody has a baby and you need to talk to me. 

Brandon: 

I mean, doesn’t mean that MBA’s are good or bad or ranking but in that world having you know, a top India is key. So that was the reason I would, I did. It makes sense. You know, one of the things you know, you made a really mature decision and one of the things that I’d love to hear your thought on is a lot of people who I help and our entrepreneurs somehow business school has taught or marketed to them that that’s really where you’re going to go and learn everything about business and you’re gonna come out of there and and deal to start your own company. 

Brandon: 

And, you know, it’s all gonna be fine now. 

Brandon: 

Well, we don’t have to name our names. 

Brandon: 

Oh, we went to business school. 

Brandon: 

They’re all good business, school hate their visit schools a good thing like it’s a good insurance policy at some level. But you know, my experience coming out of there waas. And I am a better person for it. Make no mistake, right? Like it teaches you some very fundamental school skills. You get dio happy like you were looking for many different perspectives of many different people That could be fulfilling. But as it relates to having to have an n b A to run a business, I’m not really sure that that’s the case into your point here in Silicon Valley. 

Brandon: 

Depending on where you’re going, it could be a liability, right? Because they believe that you you’re actually starting to get to trained in a way that doesn’t open your horizon. Well, like, what’s your take away after that experience? 

Brandon: 

Yes, that’s interesting. So I went into business school for two big reasons. 

Amelia: 

One was that I really want to be exposed to a wide variety of perspectives and backgrounds. 

Amelia: 

I know I’ve already talked about that. The second big thing on my wish list that I wanted out of business school was I wanted a fundamental grounding in some of these things that I was trying to figure out, like marketing and sales and support at this little tiny started. And like I think, my strategies were maybe one step above throwing, getting against the wall to see what would sick, right? And so my motivation Waas gosh, maybe I could be a much better contributor and much faster if I had some basic grounding in some of these areas. 

Amelia: 

So those were the two that I really wanted to kind of. I thought I’m going to learn some great tactics and I’m gonna learn some really great practices and principles, and I want to take away. 

Amelia: 

I think that on item number one business will check the box. I do feel like I met some really incredible people from backgrounds where if I had stayed in Silicon Valley started world my whole life, I just don’t think we would across pats or maybe what across pads and I just wouldn’t have known. I really didn’t know. And I definitely met some just incredible, incredible natural leaders who I think have become very dear friends and who, I really look to admire for advice on anything that requires, sort of, you know, like people are leadership or anything like that. So I think Number one, check the box and very grateful for that. And I think business school did open my horizons There a number two, I think, for my specific interests, which was startups. 

Amelia: 

I’m not sure that HBs was a great fit, and it’s tough to say that because it’s an incredible business school bite at the time that I went, I know it’s shifting now, but Israel’s is famous for basically essentially doing the Socratic method. It’s very discussion base, right, and that’s great for discussing ideas. But the thing that just drove me nuts was, I can’t go into start up in, Let’s and let’s discuss some Great. 

Amelia: 

I got some great idea. Let’s let’s talk about him. 

Amelia: 

You got it actually, not to do the thing, and I really, really miss that. I am missed having more hands on practice and really kind of trying to do real world things. And not just like talking about marketing principles. What? Okay, literally go set up. Do you know how to set up the Edwards campaign? Can you do it today? How do you do that? 

Amelia: 

And so really, what I end up spending my time on at HBs was I signed up for everything I could find that was more practical and hands on. 

Amelia: 

And there, you know that that wasn’t the majority of classes there, but I tried to seek that out. I signed up to do independent projects where, you know, I had built something on my own. 

Amelia: 

I come up with side projects. I ended up cross registering for classes at other schools that I thought would be very helpful. So I actually undertaking machine learning or set the engineering school like actually getting you know, like writing code was like teaching myself python on weekends and evenings. So I mean, you guess you could say, sort of create a little bit of a shadow curriculum for myself. Of things that I thought were maybe gonna be a little bit more practical and hands on and I will say I will say there is one. 

Amelia: 

There is some very serious value that has come out of HBs that I did not recognize until years afterwards, which was fundraising. 

Amelia: 

So I absolutely think that in fundraising, the connection to the HBs network definitely definitely gave me avenues and opens doors that might not have been available to me otherwise. 

Amelia: 

So, yeah, I think that allowed. I think that’s true. 

Amelia: 

I will say that for me. You know, if you if someone asked like, Brandon, how did you get good at it so good at building financials and models? And I cut my teeth on that in America Online to market analysis like being thrown to the wolves and figuring out really complex things around, turn curves and co hurt analysis and all that sort of stuff and how it’s closer financial models and then, ultimately, venture capital. I think business school gave me the foundation, but you know, for all our listeners, and I’m really grateful when you sharing it, the take away is is you don’t need to go to business school to build a business, and there’s a ton of cases out there a lot on that stores, quite frankly, barely graduated from college and, you know, our worth a $1,000,000,000. 

Brandon: 

And I have people that air like that who did go to school, too. 

Amelia: 

But you don’t have to go to business school, necessarily toe learn the principles and in many ways, and there’s many people who are really rich around the world but in Silicon Valley to you know what to okay, college and figured out business. 

Brandon: 

Because business at the end of the day is solving a problem for someone and exchanging money for that because you’re truly solving their problem. 

Brandon: 

I tell you that a really successful mentor mind Warren Buffett actually took his company public, and the Warren Buffett bought it and he sat on the borough. Or and I used to fish with them every Friday and he said, Raanan business really simple. 

Brandon: 

There’s a top line that you get because you solve the problems, persons problems. There’s a bunch of expenses, and there’s this bottom line. That’s the money you get to keep, and there’s a lot of things in between there, but at the end of the day, you know their sales and marketing things like that, but at the crux of it, you’re solving our problems. So I appreciate you sharing that. So you go to business school, And now what? 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

So actually, you’ll probably find this interesting when I was going to business school. 

Brandon: 

I mean, I I have been having a great time, you know, working the start of world, definitely enjoying in time. But I wanted to be open minded, because again, I sort of recognize I haven’t seen very much of the world. And I kind of thought, Well, let me be open minds it like I got a business school. I’m gonna meet people, rise from backer, has different industries and maybe one of them will catch my I don’t know, maybe maybe, you know, that would be the same one of the things that I was interested in. 

Amelia: 

I mean, I did. I was very interesting the start up world, but they’re different parts of started world, and so v. C was actually one of the things that I looked at. So I spent about a semester, first semester talking to a bunch of classmates would all worked in V. 

Amelia: 

C. 

Amelia: 

And that was one of the things that I wanted to figure out. I was like, Is this gonna be something that’s interesting to me? Look, that seems really cool. I spent a whole day talking all kinds of start ups and, like hearing about cool things were working on. 

Amelia: 

But I have to tell you, doctor semester, I decided V. C was not gonna be for me. 

Amelia: 

I think I knew after a semester that that’s that I really want to be in operational in start ups. 

Amelia: 

And that was still what was fulfilling for me. 

Amelia: 

And so anyway, so we wait, talk about, you know, there’s there’s more there, Have you, Have you? You probably know all about this, But but yes. Oh, actually, had it had an offer to join a venture capital firm when I was graduating, it wasn’t something I was seeking out. I have to be honest. It was something that kind of, honestly, it was really fortunate. 

Amelia: 

Came my way. 

Amelia: 

As I said, No, you know, I said, I just don’t think this is for me right now. I think I really I think I really wanted being a start. 

Amelia: 

If I want to build something in the end I felt like if I went into venture capital, I was going to spend my whole day jealous of the people who I talked to. 

Amelia: 

I would feel cool that I was getting to enable their journeys. 

Amelia: 

But literally I look across the table and be like, Man, I wish I were in your seat like that. That that’s so much more fun. I wish I were. 

Amelia: 

I know I know exactly what you’re saying cause I had the chance to be on both sides of the table and I think I voted with my feet and the universe sometimes works in mysterious ways and the key to life in many ways, as you’ve explained here is no knowing yourself. Like, you know, you’ve done a lot of work on yourself here, and you know, I say, everybody thinks it’s the business part, too. But you got to know who you are. You got a be comfortable with that and know where you’re good and where you’re not. But I think it’s pretty exciting on the side of the table. E. I like it. I mean, you know, you get to create things every single every single day and more so solve people’s problems to in any of our products, which we’re gonna get to with you, which is make them have a better life, whatever that means. Yeah, that that that that whatever that means. So you turn down this venture capital continue. 

Brandon: 

Damn. What word? What do you dio? 

Brandon: 

So I had actually been spending some time talking to prior mentors of mine. Previous managers, just people I think of his mentors and asking them, you know, is there anything that you feel like I should be considering? You know, I don’t I don’t have that much perspective. Honestly, unlike you know, the rules out there. I ended up working, marketing, but so anything you think I should be looking at And the first time someone said product, I completely dismissed it. 

Amelia: 

Someone said, When you think about product, I thought I don’t know anything about products. 

Amelia: 

Don’t even know those people. Dio I thought No way. I think what may be the fourth time that someone suggested product, I thought, Well, maybe, OK, maybe I should Maybe I should think about product. 

Amelia: 

And so Yeah, So I decided during business school that I was gonna move into product. I ended up doing internship in products. Kind of has a little bit of a test run, Really? To see if I thought I liked it. And if I was good at it and ended up coming out the other end of it thinking, Yeah, I think I do like this. I think I think I think I am good at this, and this is kind of almost the core of everything that I love, right? I love being. I love thinking about stuff to build. I love working with a lot like different people in different roles to make that happen. And I’m very much I’m kind of a generalised, You know, I’m kind of that person where you can just throw me at some random thing and I’ll go figure it out. And I felt like in so many jobs in the past, that was a liability for me, that I was more of a generalist and specialist. I think working as a in product was the first time that I felt like it actually was a strength, and that was really cool. 

Amelia: 

So I decided I was gonna be as in that I was gonna go find a job in product. 

Amelia: 

And so now I was in the position of All right, cool. 

Amelia: 

I’m gonna go pitch Cem, you know, pick some Silicon Valley start ups on why they should hire me as a product manager when I’ve never actually been a full time product manager. 

Amelia: 

It was like this whole this whole game over again. 

Amelia: 

So, yeah, I had it. I had a whole checklist. I made a checklist of all the things I wanted in my next job and my stretch schools. 

Amelia: 

And I, like, literally I just scoured, started the you never had had all these start schools of one of them was like It was so cool If I could work in online code education cause I think it’s a fascinating space, it’s one that I personally have in value from. Like, I taught myself a bunch of stuff, and I think it’s it’s just super interesting. And so literally like Udacity was like the only company that matched all of the criteria that I wanted. 

Amelia: 

So can you give me an idea just for the listeners? Like, don’t tell me two or three of the criteria that you had for your job was it? I get to work my own hours. Was it? 

Brandon: 

Oh, yeah. 

Amelia: 

What was it? So there’s some basic ones like I want to work in products. I wanted to be in the Bay Area. I want to be a tech company. And then there were all these kind of, like, wanna haves. I was like, Well, I would like to be on a product team that’s between, like, two and 10 people, cause I want some mentorship. I don’t want to be huge, and I’d be amazing if, you know, it was a product centric company, one where product is actually a center of influence. So I think I’m gonna learn a lot there. And it would be super cool if it were also in, like, online code education, cause that’s just like a very interesting area. I scoured, but you just made this up. 

Amelia: 

You’re just like you just used it. Be super cool if and you just kept rattling that off, right? 

Brandon: 

Right. So I had a head. The checklist was like two parts. It was like Here’s all things of their core, like, I definitely want this in the next job. And then here’s all the stretch goals. I was like, Okay, cool. I can go find a bunch of companies that match all the core things, but I wonder how many actually match these stretch goals and there’s literally I literally about one. 

Amelia: 

I think that’s awesome. And being specific, I think what I what I’m hearing is you are very specific. So the things that didn’t fit your criteria in any of those it was very easy for you to filter out. 

Brandon: 

Yes, that’s sure. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, so I think that I think that’s kind of have always gone about jobs. So just for me, because for me, so much of my fulfillment from work is from the specific company and product that I’m working on it. I’m not working on something that you know. If we’re not making something I’m excited about, it’s really hard. I think, for me to be motivated, and so a lot of my jobs, which has always been around what kind of company, what kind of product do I want to work on? And so I do do a lot of kind of first filtering that way. I almost I would say that’s almost my first age of filtering more than the role versus. So instead of going out and saying, Hey, we’re all the places that are hiring for marketers let me go talk to those places. I really went the other way I said, I’m gonna make a list of 10 companies where If they said they would hire me tomorrow, I’d be so excited to go work for them. Not demise is one of those companies. And I went about it as like, how am I gonna convince them to hire me like your irrespective of what jobs air on their site? 

Amelia: 

How do I convince them? 

Amelia: 

Well, I think that’s probably how you turned into an entrepreneur, which we’re going to get sued because at the end of the day, you gotta figure out as an entrepreneur, there’s no rules. 

Amelia: 

There’s no advertisements for your product or your solution. So So you wind up convincing them how I don’t know what the magic was, but that you’re gonna be a project manager. A product manager. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, has never done that before. 

Amelia: 

That’s correct. 

Brandon: 

That’s correct. Oh, man. So they had to turn me down. They turned me down the first time out, right? So it was Ah, quite is quite the process. So it was very scary for me, honestly, that only one company fit my stretch criteria because I kind of had to make this decision. I was like, I have about one semester left in business school. What am I gonna spend this semester on? In terms of the job search? I could go and pitch 50 companies, so why they should hire me. 

Amelia: 

But I really want to work at this one so I could spend all my time really figuring out how to convince him to hire me. But it’s risky, because if they say no in the end, I’ll have burned a bunch of time that I could have used to line of other opportunities. 

Amelia: 

So I did kind of have to make that decision. 

Amelia: 

I decide I was gonna go for it. I decided I was doing the risky thing and putting all my eggs in one basket. Not that Udacity knew that at the time, but so I reached out to them in January and I said, I want to work as I won’t apply to be a product manager and the recruiter at the time super nice guy. 

Amelia: 

He just flat out said, You know what we’ve already hired. We just adjusted a bunch of hiring for product managers. We just hired, like, six of them. There isn’t gonna be any more hiring part managers for at least the next six months. I can guarantee you it’s not happening. So sorry. 

Amelia: 

So then I decided. 

Amelia: 

But the way I was going to get this job was I was going to get referred into Udacity. But I was gonna get referred in so many times they would not be able to ignore me. That was my plan. I was like, I’m gonna get referred in so many freakin times. They’ll just have to talkto talks me out of curiosity if nothing else, because, like, I, I would I would be curious. Somebody could come across. I just looked over and over again. I don’t least wanna be like, why it’s this prissy cover get. 

Amelia: 

So I spent the next four five months networking the Carrabba out of Udacity and just finding person after person after person who knew someone who knew someone who has some connection to Udacity and would talk to me and I ended up getting my resume referred in. 

Amelia: 

I think by the end it was like eight times. 

Amelia: 

Oh, you know, and they were even hiring for product managers. 

Amelia: 

But I just get people to put my resume and be like, if you’re looking for a product manager, you should talk to this person. 

Amelia: 

And that, by the end, is actually kind of funny because so I got my offer literally the night before graduation. 

Amelia: 

So, like the next day was a graduation ceremony, and I got that call, and it was from the same recruiter who had said no in jail. 

Amelia: 

He remembered me and he said, Yeah, you know, it’s so funny. 

Amelia: 

But like, everyone just seemed to know you like what a crazy small world. 

Amelia: 

And I was just like, Yeah, I know, right? 

Amelia: 

Like what a crazy small world like that. 

Amelia: 

So that’s so wild. 

Amelia: 

I was like, I just never telling you. 

Amelia: 

I’m just kind of never never know already worked to make that happen. 

Amelia: 

But yeah, and I think like all the people had referred me and Muslim didn’t realize you like, you know, that there were, so I actually under hearing later, a couple months later that apparently there’s a little bit of a debate within the company because some everybody wanted the referral bonus. 

Amelia: 

And there was, like, a debate. 

Amelia: 

I was like, who would actually referred this person And because people don’t realize that like, animal. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, I I think that’s ah, really great lesson Amillia in one plan and to is you made your own lock. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, I think of very think. 

Amelia: 

You know, persistence is maybe one of the few superpowers have, Well, persistence is what it takes. 

Brandon: 

So So how long did you wind up going to Udacity and stand? 

Brandon: 

Yes, I was you’d asking for 2.5 years. 

Brandon: 

So I eventually was became a senior product manager there, and ah, it was fantastic. 

Amelia: 

It was. 

Brandon: 

It was really everything that I hoped. I really felt like as a product manager. I got to spend my days thinking about all the things that I really like thinking about, and I felt like everything that I was learning. Everything that I was doing was something that was gonna be applicable. Teoh. You know, if I ever wanted to go and do a start up in the future, it was never like I never thought that was like it wasn’t, like, explicit part of my planet. You know that Some people feel really strongly like I want I’m gonna go start a company someday, And that was actually never really the case for me. I always just cared more about working on something I care about and with people who I like. And it didn’t matter so much to me whether it was my idea whether I started her, someone else started it. But I thought it was a handy tool box toe. Have I thought, Well, if I ever do go on work of super tight and start up, I do feel like these skills on picking was a prime mentioned, very applicable. 

Amelia: 

So I worked there for 2.5 years, and I left my job at the end of 2018 which is quite the nos really felt kind of scary decision at the time. 

Amelia: 

But yeah, I basically kind of stepped off the deep end and said, I think you know, I gave my how did decided one day that I was gonna do it, and then I just sort of thought Well, why wait. 

Amelia: 

And so I just like, gave my two weeks notice, like, pretty, you know, cunt finally got that soon after I thought, Well, I think I think going to go, like, do this crazy thing. 

Amelia: 

We’ll wait. 

Amelia: 

So so Well, did you have an idea? 

Amelia: 

Did you have it of Sort of have a few ideas, but I don’t really know if any of them were gonna work. 

Brandon: 

I really didn’t. 

Brandon: 

I really, really didn’t. 

Amelia: 

But no, wait, though, before I’m gonna interrupt you because this is a very important thing for everyone to understand. 

Amelia: 

Now, were you socking away money and saving money because you thought you might do a job like, you know? 

Amelia: 

I mean, now Oh, money. 

Amelia: 

I didn’t have money saved up. 

Brandon: 

OK, so you you were saving money for a rainy day. 

Brandon: 

Yes. 

Brandon: 

I like a rainy day fund. 

Brandon: 

You didn’t. 

Amelia: 

I mean, that came into play in your process, like I got. 

Brandon: 

If I quit, I’m gonna quit. 

Amelia: 

But I know I’ve got 18 months a runway, Teoh, live. 

Brandon: 

Is that fair? Yes. Yes. OK. I think that’s an important part. Because sometimes I meet people who come to me for help and they say I quit my job and you know my first question, which no one ever really wants to talk about. But I always ask is and you heard me when we first met. I was like, how much runway we got and what’s your burn rate? And then they tell me what they think is the answer, which is the burn rate to their company. And I’m not asking that question. I’m asking, what’s your personal burn rate way? We know how long you have to go. So So you. So you did take that into a little bit of account. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, I definitely did. I definitely did. And, you know, it’s actually part of what helps me feel comfortable making what felt like kind of a crazy week. Because originally when I thought about it, I was like, No, I can’t do this. I was like, I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m ever started company for how How did know how to do this? And then I kind of really went down the checklist. I was like, What are all the things that I’m scared of? I do think this would be really cool, but what All things I’m scared of. 

Amelia: 

And I think that, like, really going down that checklist actually helped me realize that a lot of the Mourners scary. I thought so. One of them was okay, My financially secure. 

Amelia: 

I was like, Well, yeah, I do have this rainy day fund, you know, that I’ve, like, never touched and I have saved it up and yeah, I have enough. And I was like, OK, what am I scared? I’m scared that if it doesn’t, if it blows up, I’ll like the unknowable. I won’t be able to get a job again. I was like, Well, arguably arguably. I think the things that I would learn trying to do this will only make me a better product manager. And it’ll be up to me to sell that and kind of convince somebody that that’s true and help in see that. I think I could do that. You know, I was like, What? You know, Wells My, What was my scared of that my family and friends will think I’m an idiot, but my significant other you know, my partner here he was totally supportive. He was actually the one trying. Convince me that you know, he thought I could do this. My family was actually 100% on board. They were like, you know, we’re behind you all the way. If you wanted to this like you go do as we believe in you. 

Amelia: 

And so it’s like all these things that I was really scared of. 

Amelia: 

Honestly, we’re pretty risks. 

Amelia: 

And I thought, Gosh, you know, is it really so bad? 

Amelia: 

So I have Ah, one of the themes listening to you, Amelia, is is that you have this ability, the basically inventory things right. 

Amelia: 

And a lot of people. 

Amelia: 

And I’m curious where you got this right, because what you’re telling me, I mean, I think you know, I have a psychology background like you’re you’re going through. 

Amelia: 

These very people pay a lot of money to do what? 

Brandon: 

Your self diagnosing. 

Brandon: 

Here s So where did that come from? 

Brandon: 

You know, where did that is that a native new? 

Brandon: 

Did you learn that tough? 

Brandon: 

I don’t think it’s innate. 

Amelia: 

I think it’s a learn thing. 

Brandon: 

I’m actually very disorganized person by nature, which most people would not believe. Most people who have worked with me if you told them that I was disorganized. They would just They’re just think you were talking about a different person because I think, you know, they say, Oh, millions of persons always got spread sheets and checklists and you know, everything is very structured, but the truth is that actual, extremely disorganized by nature. I was totally the kid who, like, forgot their homework 80% of the time. And I mean, I remember my teachers actually, like, at some 800.1 to hold me back. Great. It’s just like I was Such a was such a mess there, like millions that mature enough to go on to fifth grade or whatever. 

Amelia: 

I had to learn to make checklist and inventory and do these things or really almost to cope with life. Because I think otherwise I’d be such a mess. Otherwise, like in college, I don’t know. 

Amelia: 

I was, like, kind of famous in college where I mean, I literally had a print out of my daily schedule that it carried around me 24 7 because even after all whole semester of taking the same frickin classes on the same friggin schedule, if I lost a piece of paper, I actually couldn’t remember, like which class I was supposed to go to next and where it was. I was, like, also famous for like, and my cell phone, you know, back me. That’s like clamshells, right? Like I had to have a like, my phone number written on a piece of paper taped inside my phone because I couldn’t remember my own phone number. And so I would like, leave voicemails messages for people like is Amelia, Call me back at, like, whole phone away. 

Amelia: 

Look at it for 69 and like, going to church because I literally couldn’t run my own phone number. 

Amelia: 

So this was a coping mechanism that you learned? Yes. And this is like Amelia system. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, Exactly. Because I my life would be like a shambles if I if I didn’t do this basically clearly worked. 

Amelia: 

So you do this checklist you did. Now I always ask, Can you remember the morning you woke up and you were like, Hey, this is Yeah. I gotta make a change. Like, was it? I call him pivotal moments, Amelia, Like I can remember these very pivotal moments in my life when I just decided, Like I can remember one time I was like, I don’t really like where I’m going to high school. I’m going to stay by back a year and I’m going to switch high schools and do my junior year over again because I’m just not happy. And I can tell you that I was on a lacrosse field playing some of the cross, taking a ball out of bounds when I made that decision like that’s literally where I made that decision. 

Brandon: 

The next morning I got in my jeep, I drove down to this high school and I was like a I wanted you on your high school and I’m like, Wow, eso So you know, I call him these panic, and it literally changed the course of my life, and I can remember these very explicit times. 

Brandon: 

So was this. Do you have that type of memory or or is it more of, Ah, morphine of two weeks that you’re just sort of No, it’s definitely there was a moment. 

Brandon: 

It was actually pretty fast. 

Amelia: 

I think I spent a lot of time thinking about the checklists and what was on my list of fears that took some time. 

Brandon: 

Then I took some more time. 

Amelia: 

That’s probably just a couple months. 

Amelia: 

I would see them there a couple of months where I was like what a my spirit of and then actually didn’t take that long to really go through the checklists and realize that they weren’t That’s scary. 

Amelia: 

That probably only took like a week. 

Amelia: 

And it was really like a week in the beginning of October. 

Amelia: 

And I actually gave myself a deadline because I was sort of annoyed with myself for being very wishy washy about this decision. 

Amelia: 

I thought gonna give myself a deadline. I actually emailed a bunch of friends. And I said, I’m gonna make this decision within 30 days. 

Amelia: 

I’m gonna tell you whether I’m leaving or staying. I have some accountability? Was like, Check back with me in 30 days. I’ll have decided what I’m doing because I didn’t want to get myself some more time box, make the decision It. 

Amelia: 

And once I went through that checklist and really convinced myself, I was like, Yeah, I am really convinced that this is like something I could do. 

Amelia: 

I mean, here will tell you here will tell you that I You thought it was ridiculous. 

Amelia: 

I basically looked at him and I said, maybe I should give my notice on Thursday. 

Amelia: 

And, and he was, like, here, Here is good. He’s like, I’m he was like, Yeah, I mean, you know, he’s listening to me. Let’s talk through this, and he’s like, Yes, I agree. Okay. Cool. Seems like you’re convinced. 

Amelia: 

I thought he was just, like, so shocked. You know, he was so shocked. I was like, Well, why wait? Like life isn’t getting a shorter. I’m not going to change my mind on this decision. I’m convinced I was a good time. 

Amelia: 

So you give your notice and you have some ideas, but not the idea. 

Amelia: 

I wasn’t sure. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, I had a vast ideas, but I didn’t know I honestly didn’t have anything We’re gonna work out. I didn’t know if I would end up going with any of them. 

Amelia: 

How long did you have? 

Brandon: 

My God? 

Brandon: 

Well, money was I knew I couldn’t make it at least for a year browser if I was prudent. 

Amelia: 

But I actually wanted to peg myself at a year anyway, not for the runway, but because I was pretty sure I was gonna want to give up before then. 

Amelia: 

So, Carol site Yes, I gave myself this. I was like, I had worked enough start up. Said I wasn’t going and completely blind. 

Amelia: 

I knew I knew that it was gonna be hard. And I knew that Probably parts that we’re gonna suck and that I was probably gonna be extremely demoralized for at least part of it, and that there would be times when I would be very, very tempted to give up. 

Amelia: 

But I also really wanted to give it a real go. 

Amelia: 

And I didn’t want to kind of, like, let myself kind of give up too easily. So I told myself, I’m gonna try for at least a year. 

Amelia: 

Because that way, even if I go through these parts where I feel super sucky and demoralized, I’m sure are coming. 

Amelia: 

I will stick with it until a year. 

Amelia: 

Because you have it because you have the deadline. 

Amelia: 

You’re just or because that’s cake in the same year. Okay, I’m just gonna wake up tomorrow and see what happens. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, I was I’m some commit to this. I’m going to stick it out for a year because I think that a year feels like a reasonable around time were if I wanna, If I want to throw in the towel, then I will at least feel like I really gave us a good shot, really gave it my best. And I wasn’t just kind of giving up because it was felt easy at the time. 

Amelia: 

So anyway, that’s that’s how that went. 

Amelia: 

So that’s cool. And now how do you get to the idea? 

Brandon: 

And what month is that? 

Brandon: 

Oh, that’s actually very fast. So I loved Udacity, and I spent about two weeks while I immediately started, kind of just like I immediately started working on the ideas that I had. 

Amelia: 

And I would say, within two weeks it was very clear to me which one I was gonna work on. 

Amelia: 

What does it mean work on these ideas? 

Brandon: 

Sorry. So I was doing a lot of like, Okay, these are things that I want, how I figure if if things that other people want, So I would be like doing things that going and looking on Google trends for, like searches of keywords, I was putting up dummy websites. 

Amelia: 

I was like trying to look around and see what else is in that are in these spaces. I was literally just, like, telling random idea these random ideas to like, my co workers, like at my at my going away party, right? Like, these are the things I’m working on. And I was paying attention to what people were reacting to, what they weren’t reacting to and who wanted what. 

Amelia: 

And I was like, starting to I started to run small scale ad campaigns on, like a Facebook or something where I would just kind of let hypothetically describe these products and kind of be looking for, like, click the rates, right. I was just trying to trim it. 

Amelia: 

Guesses. And I would say that within about two weeks and knew that saga was the thing I was gonna work on that was really gonna I was gonna drop everything else, and I was gonna just focus on this. I don’t think I knew I was gonna arrive at that quite so fast. But it did happen that way. So all of the ideas were things that I personally related to you. Saga was a very personal one, which was that I had literally been begging my parents were probably about 10 years to say of these stories that used Tell me in my system you were kids growing up and I always wanted to have these, like, Save somehow I would always tell them You gotta have a book written about You are like a documentary or something, you know, they always stable. 

Amelia: 

That sounds crazy. Really. We’re so flattered. But what a huge shore. We’re going to write a book, and it made me want to retire. They, when you’re tired, doesn’t like a really big project. 

Amelia: 

But every time I described toe other people, this idea there was this depth of immediate emotional connection that far outweighed any of the other ages. I was throwing around. Whether somebody therapy like That’s cool, I want that. 

Amelia: 

But when I talked about Saga and the concept of it, I would just get strangers at parties just going on and on with me about how Oh my gosh, we tried to do this. 

Amelia: 

My grandma last year. 

Amelia: 

We like Saturday on a stool in the kitchen, and I remember I got I got the video camera out and we tried to film it or I my Uncle Joe. 

Amelia: 

My Uncle Joe tried to do this with my grandpa, and he’s got voice memos like saved on his phone somewhere, and we don’t even know where they are. Like I I don’t even know where he’s kept them. And just like, I would just bring the idea but random parties and it would start this huge conversation or like the entire group, would just be like talking about this idea like P. 

Amelia: 

I would even have to concern myself in conversation. 

Amelia: 

People just people would just start talking about it. 

Amelia: 

I idea is that you record family stories? 

Brandon: 

Yes, yes, yeah, is pressure, but that beginning. 

Brandon: 

But how You save life stories of people you love your family, loved ones and in particular, you know, and not just like hey here, some photos, right. 

Amelia: 

But really capturing like stories and memories from their perspective, like in their voice. 

Amelia: 

So that that was kind of the seat of it, Really? And it was perfect because, I mean, I had wanted to use my parents were longest time. So I basically figured I was going to start experimenting with them, and I would say I basically told me, Mom, and dad. He said, Look, you would know I’ve been wanting to this forever. 

Amelia: 

I’m an experiment. You and so just let me try like 10 Brazilian different things on you. 

Amelia: 

And you know what’s the worst that comes out of it? The worst I could come out of it is I finally end up with these stories captured that I wanted to save for so many years anyway, right? So, like, I’m gonna, like, try a bunch of things on you. But I’m also going to finally get the thing that I wanted. That’s how it started. And of course what? And coming out of this, too, was a couple of my co workers said I actually really wants to my family, like, would would you do this for my family, Does it? Yeah, great. 

Amelia: 

So, yeah, Within about two weeks, I was booking times with family and family of friends where I was like calling them upon hangouts or the phone or whatever. 

Amelia: 

Like, however I could get a hold of them and essentially trying to interview them. 

Amelia: 

Shattering the concept is you record the life stories for people that gets maintained in a central repository, so that everyone confined them and they’re easily catalogued for the life of the family. 

Brandon: 

Yes. Although I don’t think I knew that so clearly, I certainly would have been phrased it that way. The beginning at the beginning was like, I just want the story saved. 

Amelia: 

But But yes, I would say that within about three months I knew that I was gonna do this using voice, and that was gonna be the format I was gonna use. 

Amelia: 

So, yeah. So the core of the product actually really hasn’t changed too much. In that perspective, what we do today is where Yeah, we’re happened. We help. We help families save the life stories of loved ones. We make it really easy using voice. We basically take your grandma’s memories and turn into podcast for your family is really kind of what it iss. 

Amelia: 

So how does that How does it explain how it works? They down someone downloads the app? Yes. They created account very quickly. 

Brandon: 

Yes. And we send weekly questions to you and your families. You you invite, you want the question promises things like, What’s the biggest trouble you ever got into? When your kid there these things that are meant to prompt memories. And then we make it really easy for anybody to record. So you can even record without the app By calling a special fund reached. Dial a special phone number as you don’t even need a smartphone. There’s no typing. You can even do from a landline the only way you can really use it. 

Amelia: 

And then the audio gets captured and saved and shared with your family. 

Amelia: 

Ah, lot like getting hot gas upset. 

Amelia: 

Actually, that’s it. That’s often how I describe it to people. I said. It’s kind of like if you were getting a private podcast for your family of your grandma’s childhood stories. So it’s like, That’s cool, Thank you. 

Amelia: 

It’s funny because, I mean, that really isn’t how it started, right? 

Brandon: 

I mean it. It actually took a lot, a lot of variations and learning one to get even to that basic concept and to toe learn how to describe it to other people. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, your elevator pitch. 

Brandon: 

Exactly what’s the one sent? His description that was very hard is hard. 

Amelia: 

It is hard. People think that that’s the easy part. That’s one of the heil arts you knew that a lot. And I do want to mention that you didn’t start off with the name saga. You had another name. What does it keep life stories and life stories. So what made you change it The name Just because it was long yet to things, So I was never particularly wedded to the name to begin with. 

Brandon: 

In fact, I was all about speed, you know, at the beginning, it was really about validation of the idea. 

Amelia: 

So literally, I I just went and tried to find a domain name that was cheap. And I found keep life stories and it was sheet, so I just I just took it. But I also at the time thought that maybe S CEO was gonna be a good acquisition channel. And so I thought it might be prudent to pick a domain name that would help for a CEO. And I did look kinda look around in this space. I saw other businesses that Dunn’s had done that, and so it was very much a It was a choice of kind of a little bit of a little bit of strategy, but mostly expediency, and I always thought and So what happened? 

Amelia: 

What happened was pretty quickly. I figured out that s CEO. While it didn’t drive some traffic was not gonna be the main channel. This wasn’t something where people would actively go search for it. But I did know that if I told people about the idea and put it in front of them, I could get really strong reactions. 

Amelia: 

I definitely saw that. Not just from bring it up with people, but even from those little Facebook ad campaigns that was running, I was able to get, like, really good click through rates. You know, I’m on this description of this hypothetical product, and so I knew that. Well, OK, SC was not important. And so Yeah, I maybe I should change that. You know, maybe I should change my name to something that’s like easier, but I basically figured it wasn’t important to worry about until later. I really did feel like let’s worry more about proving that this is something we’re gonna want they’re gonna pay for. You can do all that with pretty much any name. So that’s not in the name. Is it gonna be what makes or breaks that? Let’s just focus on that. So we only change the name after we closed our fund. Aries actually think of that way. We’re like, OK, all right, listen, stay now, you. 

Amelia: 

There’s a few things I want to talk about. 

Amelia: 

One is first thing is I don’t think you have and you’re really mean in your journey. 

Amelia: 

Your what are we two years in 2.5 years? 

Brandon: 

Ah, now it’s yet me. 

Brandon: 

A year, year and 1/2 for a year and 1/2 in. 

Amelia: 

But you don’t have your original co founder, right? 

Brandon: 

That’s right. That’s right. 

Amelia: 

So So? So that changed out already. And that’s not uncommon. But I’m only mention it because listeners sometimes feel like, you know, it’s all gonna be rosy, and everybody’s gonna it’s all gonna work out and doesn’t always work out for you. I think it worked out pretty well that you guys had a good friendship and and, uh oh, absolutely. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, he’s He’s awesome. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, So it didn’t turn out into ugly thing? not at all. What made you decide, Amelia? Because you and I have talked about this before and and you know where I where I sometimes tend to go is why did you decide to raise money? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, I remember. 

Amelia: 

I mean, I remember that even being I’m pretty sure that came up in probably one that you probably first conversation we ever you ever had. 

Brandon: 

So, yes, my original co founder to really watch, I start out with no co founders, started out by myself, But then s O. C. On my ritual co founder who ended up joining. He’s really great friend of mine. And it was actually something that we talked about a lot, so because because I saw there was something we felt very passionately about, it was certainly something could have remained a passion project for us. We basically talked about Do we keep this running hunter on the side? And we can make some families very happy. And that’s certainly very fulfilling for us. We couldn’t even keep We can keep this running. 

Amelia: 

Or do we want to go all in on it and try to make it something huge and kind of one of the trade offs of that? 

Amelia: 

And you know, certainly if you want to go make it something huge going and getting funding can be a way to accelerate that right? 

Amelia: 

And in the end, I mean, we actually really talk about for a very long time, but in the end, I really I really said, you know, I think we should I think we should spring for it. 

Amelia: 

I think we should swing for it. 

Amelia: 

I I think I think I think we should try. And the reason for me at least, why was because by that point I can’t tell you how many families I had talked to. I cannot tell you how many families I talked to who said to me, I wish that the city existed three years ago. 

Amelia: 

I wish that I knew this existed. 

Amelia: 

I wish I had this for my grandpa. 

Amelia: 

I’m really felt like I know people aren’t searching for this, But if they just knew that existed, like how amazing would that be if we could really change someone’s someone’s life for their families life? 

Amelia: 

So I really thought we kind of owe it Teoh to ourselves into them. 

Amelia: 

Let’s try, let’s try to get this out into the world. 

Amelia: 

And I worked in scripts. 

Amelia: 

I know what the odds are like. 

Amelia: 

I get it. I get it that this isn’t risk that we’re taking. But look, let’s go try. So that was how we decided to do it. 

Amelia: 

What’s your take away from that experience? Because I think we’ve had 100 conversations through that. 

Brandon: 

My guys, guys. 

Amelia: 

Well, that was, like, one of the crazy things ever lived through rented, right? 

Amelia: 

So, I mean, just just to give some color to people that you sort of need to be ready for, you gotta be strapped in, right? 

Amelia: 

I mean, it is a roller coaster. 

Brandon: 

I mean, it is going from one day you might have the money in the bank, and the next day am I not right? 

Brandon: 

So, you know, I think the funny thing is, I was really X. 

Brandon: 

I was really prepared for it to be the opposite. 

Brandon: 

We were all prepared for to the opposite. So by that time, we’d actually brought on another. 

Amelia: 

What do you mean by honest? It you were prepared for it to be wise repaired for there to be no interest in four to be an endless slog. 

Brandon: 

That’s what I thought fundraising was gonna be like. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, well, I’m not a little better for you. 

Brandon: 

but I was a great hands great from that. 

Brandon: 

But we had no idea. We had never fundraise before. We were first time founders. I’d certainly never gone pitching. I didn’t have a pitch that, you know that. Like, I mean, we were We don’t really know we’re doing. And so we did with that up in 72 hours. 

Amelia: 

Thank you. 

Brandon: 

Yes, You know, you were yet. So for everybody listening, Brennan was amazing. Chris practically my advisor on call during that diary were a lot of last minute late night texts. I’m getting asked this, and I have no idea what what this means, like you. 

Amelia: 

But you got it. 

Brandon: 

And we tried. What do you think was the key? 

Amelia: 

Yeah, to that. 

Brandon: 

I mean, you did have interest. I mean, it was it was a roller coaster. I think for you, the expectation was was probably nobody’s gonna be interested. So I’m just gonna prepare like I did for that year. I’m going to set a time on if it works. Because I remember you saying if it works, it does. It does it. It doesn’t. I’m good with it. I tried, but what do you think wasn’t about your, was it? 

Brandon: 

The market opportunity was at your passion. 

Amelia: 

I mean, what is it that you think really changed that? 

Brandon: 

That people became interested? I mean, yeah, clearly very convincing lady. 

Brandon: 

Uh, hey. 

Brandon: 

So but for the for the mere mortals out there, like us, what is that? That if there’s a technique or or what was it if you Yeah, you know, that’s a great question. 

Brandon: 

And I actually ended up asking some of our eventual investors that question after the money had arrived, our bank account because I was, I thought would be a great learning opportunity. You know, I was genuinely curious. I thought, Well, so why did you arrest what convinced you I love that love? No, But so I think there are two things that kind of come to mind immediately for me. One on a very tactical side. I don’t think it has anything to do with whether I don’t think has anything to do with your business idea of the market opportunity or whether you think you’re great founder or not, is literally just revising and revising and revising and just putting your pitch deck in front of as many people who would possibly look at it as possible. I remember going and I waited a few pitches and they did not go well, you know, And it was a very, very fast. No. And I remember thinking like, Well, maybe, baby, this is just a crappy idea. And it wasn’t until when my friends told me. He said, you know, it took us like 12 revisions are pitched. It before became anywhere near reasonable. 

Amelia: 

I o. Okay, so it’s actually normal. That’s fine. Okay, well, if that’s what it is, Okay, I can get on that train. 

Amelia: 

And I found every friend I had. You know, this is where I think the benefit came in of just having worked in startups for so long, but it really rounds up just every friend I had had ever fundraise successfully and said, Look at my pitch deck and tear it apart and tell me all of things were wrong with it. 

Amelia: 

Okay, Great. 

Amelia: 

Well, you have a home where I’m gonna go. Gonna fix it. Okay. What about now? 

Amelia: 

And just rinse. Repeat over and over and over again. Here’s I mean, I literally that meet up that meeting where we met the M. 

Amelia: 

There were previous sessions where I would come and say, Hey, guys, here’s my pitch. I’m practicing my pitch. I like you a picture. Okay? Like give me feedback, Right. 

Amelia: 

So I think that realizing that I wish I had understood that earlier I wish I’d understood that that was actually very, very normal and that I don’t think anybody starts out honestly with an amazing Polish pitch. 

Amelia: 

I think everybody starts out with being clunky and rocky and it’s just not great. And it is just going to take time and opposition the ball, Mark Twain or whoever. 

Amelia: 

The first draft is always shit like it just the way it is. 

Brandon: 

But this Yeah, I mean, we talked to you and I talked about it. I was like, You got it. I mean, we needed to get you to a decent place, right? 

Brandon: 

It’s said that you had some fundamentals that might have been missing there, but we got you there and then it’s being able to enter. And I think where people make the mistake is what you just said. Is there so stuck on their idea that they believe this is how it should be and they won’t change. And if you will not revise and not be open to these ideas, then you you won’t be successful in that. 

Brandon: 

Because you you will Unless you get like, absolutely lucky. 

Brandon: 

Would you agree? 

Brandon: 

No. Maybe, Yeah. I mean, I just I mean, I had certainly no illusions. You know, I felt like I don’t know anything about this stuff. And so I mean, I was desperate for any feet that I could get all six. Great. I’m gonna work on all of that. You know, that was that was kind of how I felt about it. 

Amelia: 

But Sunday that’s one big one big thing. This revision, the second big thing that I think, you know, if I could do it all again, I wish I had just We figured it out. But I wish you’d figure out sooner. 

Amelia: 

Waas I really should have been more open minded about where we were gonna find our first supporters. And not just like supporters, cheerleaders, but really investors. 

Amelia: 

So I had thought Okay. The way I’m gonna go about this is I’m gonna go make a big spreadsheet of all these. 

Amelia: 

I’m going to go online and do research investors are gonna make a big target spreadsheet, which is, you know, it’s kind of how I did my job search. All right, I’m gonna pitch these people cause these are investors. These are professional investors. This house works and, you know, the person who actually ends up becoming our first annual investor was an old corner of mine who reached out to me Cold reached out to me on lengthen and was like, Hey, I heard you’re working on this thing. 

Amelia: 

You know, I think it sounds really cool. I would love to be an Angel Investor. 

Amelia: 

Why? I had no idea. I had no idea that the angel invested. 

Amelia: 

Thank goodness that he reached out cause I’m 1000% sure. I never and never would have occurred to me in a 1,000,000 years to reach out, didn’t even ask. 

Amelia: 

And that’s I all our very first supporters. All the people became our first angel. 

Amelia: 

Investors is a very does very first checks. There were people who knew us, and we’re betting on us because they believed in us. You know, it was like I how did the god Shiva pitch deck They really were just betting on us. 

Amelia: 

And if I had understood that sooner, I would have been a lot more open minded about where I went for that first bit of support. 

Amelia: 

I would have gone to my personal working. I would have said, Hey, everybody, do you know anybody who’s an angel investor? 

Amelia: 

Or you know, like instead of me thinking I had to go online and, like, research who are professional investors? 

Amelia: 

And you know, that had to be my my target list, because what is happening with that started the whole train. We had our first few supporters just the first few, and those people ended up telling other people who then told other people who then told other people. 

Amelia: 

And that’s how we really ended up getting Teoh. 

Amelia: 

It was probably a second or third recon connection through these first few checks that we got our first term sheet. That’s really how it happened. 

Amelia: 

So, yeah, I that’s the That’s the second big thing. I would say that I worked for us and if I were gonna do it all again, and also what I’ve told other people that they fund raised when their first time fundraisers is too be more open minded about? 

Amelia: 

Where you gonna find those first truck series? Honestly, you just You never really know. You couldn’t pleasantly surprise what did what did you I’m curious. 

Amelia: 

What? What did some of your investors say at the end? Why they did? Yeah. Not the friends and family, right? I think that I think that’s a great take away, which is and you never know who’s Everybody’s in an investor like you don’t know. 

Brandon: 

I’ve met. 

Brandon: 

Said no idea. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, right. So So I think that’s a great take a way for people to know that sometimes your investors right in front of you. 

Brandon: 

You know what I mean? It’s not the brand on Sand Hill Road that you necessarily need out of the can or anything like that. So But I’m curious about because I think that’s I love hearing the type of feedback like a what? Got you over the hump, right? Like yeah, actually, Fassinger you on that water? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, and I mean, I am somebody who I thrive on feedback, and I Look, I love that stuff. I mean, even if it’s even if it’s negative, I still love knowing it. And, I was actually remarkably consistent. You know, across across the board, it was really Yes. There were people who were like, you know, I consistent interesting business. And I see the market opportunity. I think audio is blowing up. Baby boomers are aging. I see there being a market, you know, when seniors and their families, but by far in a way, it was. But I’m betting on you. I’m betting on you. I’m betting on you as a person either because they had, you know, we have been referred to them through somebody who they trusted. 

Amelia: 

And they thought, you know, you so and so like, really, really has conviction in you, and it’s kind of betting on you as a person. 

Amelia: 

I trust them. And so I think I think I I believe it or possibly I think I am probably somebody who lives life with with a lot of conviction, about choices that I make, whether they’re good or bad. Frankly, here always jokes with me. You know, my partner, you always said, you know, if you’re running in the wrong direction, you’re like, really sure. Though you’re like really sure that you like. That’s the direction and you know you’re changing, but at some point and you’ll go some other you like. Okay, this is the new direction. 

Amelia: 

But if you’re gonna make a wrong decision, you do a lot of conviction. 

Amelia: 

So you think you when you make those decisions, you have to really believe him because you’re not to go all in or you just never know that it was wrong. 

Brandon: 

Yes. Yeah, I think that’s true. I think that partly you know, people sometimes that people say, you know, you’re very convincing, but I think that part of that is because I really to believe the things that I’m saying. 

Amelia: 

I’m not trying to, like, sell you some kind of snake oil where, you know, I don’t believe it. Like I’ve convinced myself, I convince myself and I I think it’s true. So then it’s because you’re easy, you know, to tell you why. Why? You know, this is something that I think I think this is. Good idea. 

Amelia: 

So you’ve raised a bunch of money You just released your your your newest app version. 

Brandon: 

Yes. Yeah. What do you What do you most scared of now? 

Amelia: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Wow. 

Amelia: 

Yes, eso I guess going from there to here. Maybe just to fill in the color of the journey a bit. Yeah, we we rate, we raise money. 

Amelia: 

Honestly, it went It went extremely fast. We were not expecting it. You had to learn very, very quickly on a compressed timeline. As I’m sure you remember from a lot of late night calls and texts, we close over three times. You know, the original amount that we sort of dreamed of being able to raise. Frankly, we just didn’t know, like, what was possible. Andrew, my co founder, and I went all in and he started out as a team of two and our team before, and we’re hiring for employee number five and, ah, as you mentioned, we just released our our APP single search right saga in Iowa’s APP store. 

Amelia: 

And you, once you hear someone climbed, leave us a review. 

Amelia: 

We love that. 

Amelia: 

But we were just We were So we ran flat out. 

Brandon: 

We ran flat out for about eight weeks to get that up out. 

Amelia: 

Beginning of the year, we knew we wanted to build at some point, but we decided earliest you were gonna pull the trigger and do it and that became even more true honestly, when cooked when the quarantine hit and when corona virus hit. 

Amelia: 

Because we were really starting to see how if this tool existed, how it could provide immediate value for families who were trying to stay in touch with loved ones near far and people who are thinking about older loved ones. 

Amelia: 

So we launched a week ago, and we were very prepared for it to just be crickets because, you know, you climb one mountain and now now is the next one. 

Amelia: 

We were very prepared, but all right, next mountain climbers, we gotta make sure the world knows about is we’re very, very fortunate actually picked up in an article by seen it so see, not right. 

Amelia: 

But when you when you when you say that I just have this inclination that it just didn’t happen did it really happen? 

Amelia: 

Or was it Amelia happen that eight people recommended that cnet write an article about way try? 

Brandon: 

I Yeah, I know We pushed a lot of people because a lot of people and some of it works out, and some of it didn’t. 

Brandon: 

And I have to be honest, I actually didn’t know, if seen, it was really gonna write about us. 

Brandon: 

So I knew they might write about us. But I wasn’t pinning my hopes on it. And they really did. Which was great. 

Amelia: 

Eyes this. Ah, you dig in and finding the writers and pitch in. 

Brandon: 

No, this one, this one, This one. 

Brandon: 

I can’t claim credit. I can’t claim all I can claim credit for We got so this one, We had investors, and so I don’t know anything about pitching press. And so I went to our advisors. I went toward investments that help me with this, and they actually help me a ton with figuring out how to connect with people. And we’re just really awesome coaches. So that’s not something where I felt like I had a lot of expertise print credit to them really for helping us with that. And ah, So we got the article written about us, and we shot up that day. 

Amelia: 

Like just last Tuesday. We shot up from number 94 in the app store. When you search her sockets in numbers three overnight. 

Amelia: 

So we were just below Candy Crush saga, which is so crazy. I mean, that kid, of course. Are guys like a 1,000,000 1/2 of use. And then there’s our little tiny act like singer underneath it. But get this. 

Amelia: 

The next day we were number two. And the next day we were number one. Well, and it was driven. It was absolutely driven by people checking out the APP people going and being interested enough that they were actually downloading it and leaving a review. And so we’re now we’re now ranked number one still, Yeah. If you go search today, we’re number one. Oppose Candy Crush saga, which is crazy. It was wonderful, though. It was wonderful. And we started getting sign ups and we started getting support tickets and bus tickets. And, you know, I’m even happy about the bug tickets, cause it’s just like people are really using it. And they care enough about it that when something’s broken they’re telling you, you know, cause they wanted to lengthen. 

Amelia: 

People can try it for free now, right? 

Amelia: 

Yes, yes, yeah. 

Brandon: 

Try to you try it for free, so please go. Please go check out. I would absolutely love to hear, by the way, you know, like what? What you think I’m a I don’t know if you like, you know, Figure out a way, Teoh. Select people contact, Contact me. But I would really love the irritable thing. We have so much plan in the works. So many things that we want to improve and add. And I would just love to hear what you have a way that people can reach you on your website. 

Amelia: 

Yes. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, I think our emails are you most? The bottom is just like just like team team at try. So I got a call like we read. I mean literally every every single email that comes in and is so valuable to us and again that you are l is try tr Why s a g a dot com? 

Amelia: 

Yes, Thank you. 

Brandon: 

Yes, Thank you for e mail. 

Amelia: 

If you want to write his team at try saga dot com and Amelia or her co founder will get back to you. 

Brandon: 

Yes. 

Brandon: 

Yes, we absolutely well, so I’m not gonna let you off the hook on this day. 

Amelia: 

I still haven’t answered the question, Which is what? 

Brandon: 

Like what do you what I write on. 

Amelia: 

But when you put your head on the pillow now at night. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

So for me, it’s about not losing this momentum. 

Amelia: 

This so this so hard won momentum, You know that we have I don’t want us to get complacent, you know? 

Brandon: 

I don’t want us to feel like Okay, Great. We climb this mountain, we built this thing, we got into the world and we got some users. Good job, us. I mean, I do want to celebrate that, and we should celebrate that. But then, you know, there’s next mounted decline. And I think for us, it’s about making making an absolutely wonderful product, right? 

Amelia: 

For every single person who has who has tried this so far. These are These are earliest supporters, and I just We just want to make it. We just want to make it wonderful for them. So So, yeah, it’s It’s about not not losing momentum. I’m not getting complacent. 

Amelia: 

Not getting lazy, you know that? We have so far, but I just I don’t want to start now and kind and kind of climbing the next mountain. 

Amelia: 

Yeah. Cool. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Really fun watching you go through this and making it making it happen. I’m really grateful for you sharing the good, bad and the ugly. Okay. right. Not not everyone will will do that. But, you know, these are the types of stories and revelations or just revealing the truth. Other than the scene, that story or the TechCrunch story or the absolutely You know, that makes it look like it all happened overnight, because it it doesn’t happen overnight. 

Brandon: 

Success can what? 

Brandon: 

Once you get the once you get the flywheel going, you get momentum. 

Amelia: 

But to get that is really hard. So congratulations to you and your team and I’m looking forward. 

Brandon: 

Toa watching your journey. I love to have you back here in a few months and and here, here, how it all is happening. And I don’t want to leave without three. 

Brandon: 

H pts from you on your experience for fellow entrepreneurs who are either trying to take the leap or raising whatever you think from use whole journey, they that hear what? 

Brandon: 

What would be your your three hp gs, right? 

Brandon: 

So it’s funny cause I feel like they’ve already been alluded to you because they’re familiar. 

Amelia: 

You can just summarize. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, I know. 

Amelia: 

I will say I will Yeah, I I’ll summarize them. 

Brandon: 

So one is, I really think that that just putting yourself out there for feedback and revision over and over and over and over again is so important. And I think that’s really, really hard for founders. You, your identity and your your sense of self worth is so tied to this thing, this baby that you’ve created and you’re almost, like, embarrassed to put it out there. 

Amelia: 

I mean, not even almost. You are embarrassed, right to put out there in the world. This thing, that’s like, I mean, I can’t even tell you what The first version of sock it was the first word No saw. 

Amelia: 

It was me literally calling people in the phone, you know, and then, like dying of file and emailing it to them. So I guess that the product that I envisioned No, that’s what I have. And so I think, just like as hard as it is, just keep putting yourself out there, just keeping yourself out there and just know it’s gonna take 202,000 revisions in generations, Right? 

Amelia: 

But you’ll get there, you’ll get better. So it’s one to is. 

Amelia: 

I think I wish I could have told my past self to be more open minded about where support was gonna come from. 

Amelia: 

I know I kind of alluded to that for the fundraising, but I would actually say that in general. 

Amelia: 

I do this thing and I guess I’ll share. This is maybe a specific tactic that I may be that that I would recommend very early, literally raptured like the two weeks after I left my job, I actually started a mailing list. 

Amelia: 

It’s almost like an online. This was a little diary, and I had basically offered to friends and co workers and family. I said, Hey, if you’re a lot of people said, they’re very curious what was gonna happen. And so I said, Well, I could have, like, a 1,000,000 coffees each week. Or maybe I’ll just now just send a little email update about my life. 

Amelia: 

So I started building this like, subscriber list of people. 

Amelia: 

I think we’re just curious, and I would just use it as like a confessional. 

Amelia: 

I would just be like All right, well, here’s my life and here’s what’s great about it. Here’s what sucky and here’s what I’m working on that email list turned into this incredible resource for me, where six months later I would actually have the section in the email that would say, Hey, here’s I asks. 

Amelia: 

I’m trying Figure out how you pitch businesses for partnership under the first thing about this. I’m not going to this conference and I’m trying. So anybody here know about this, and at this point, they’re probably, like, 70 80 people in this lessons. If someone would respond and say, Yeah, I know something about this It was great. I had built up this list of just like people who cared about me, and I didn’t even know all the ways you could help me. But I was like, Hey, here’s what I need help with That’s a great too Oh, my gosh, it was amazing. 

Amelia: 

I mean, I really just stumbled into it honestly, right, cause that’s not how intended to use it. 

Brandon: 

You know, this, but yeah, it was great. 

Amelia: 

So I just have these asks every time and people reach out. So I guess I’ll say that about kind of be, like, you know, be the open minded about you know, where that support is gonna go for? Put yourself out there. You never know. You never know. You really don’t. 

Amelia: 

Yeah. The 3rd 1 is Teoh, I think, yes, for yourself. Other. But I think also be No, I think I think. 

Amelia: 

Also be really tactical to about who you’re going, Teoh. Who is really gonna help you take your pitch from the V two or V three? Teoh V six There were there there was a short list. I mean, yes, I would pay. I was definitely paying attention the entire time to There were always a couple people who really stepped up, really stepped up and went above and beyond to help, to help. And you’re one of them, you know, you were definitely one of them. And don’t waste that, like, take advantage that you use Brandon. you you helped us get really whipped into shape, right? 

Amelia: 

And you know me like, I came to your time and time again for advice. When you find those people who are willing to step on a limb and help you out, don’t miss opportunity. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, I think that’s a good, good lesson. 

Amelia: 

And for all the listeners I did offer and Amelia did run it like a show like, Hey, I need to meet you at three oclock on Saturday. 

Brandon: 

Can we do that? 

Brandon: 

Yeah, sure. Whatever you need, we’ll make that happen. And we did. I think that I think there’s a really good tips and yeah, thank you so much for sharing this. 

Brandon: 

I know you’re gonna have success, and you’re gonna make it happen. 

Brandon: 

There’s anybody who could make it happen. It will be you. And I think you have a great product. And when I think about it, it goes back to the very origins of our of the civilisations of the world. Earth At this, it is, you know, stories Air passed on by telling them and recording them. And, you know, modern technology has allowed us to do that in people’s own voice. And I think there’s humans and stories there. 

Brandon: 

That’s the essence of humanity. 

Brandon: 

That’s what we’re doing right now. 

Amelia: 

Yeah, Yeah, we just told your shame right now a story and people will benefit from it from a really long for a really long time. And for many ways is that you know, the stories reveal the things that we don’t think or help the stories that we’ve told in her own head may or may not actually be true. 

Brandon: 

So that is the essence of communication of mankind. So you are right there at the least common denominator. 

Brandon: 

So that’s exciting. 

Brandon: 

Thanks a lot, Amelia. You enjoy your weekend, and we’re gonna have you back in a few months. Maybe. Maybe we’ll still be at home. I don’t know, but I’ll tell you, Sam, and we’ll get a date on the calendar. So congratulations on your success so far. 

Brandon: 

Thank you so much. And thank you so much for having me right on. 

Amelia: 

Take care. 

Brandon: 

What an incredible story. That is awesome, Emelia. Thank you. If you’re listening so much for sharing so much and opening up and be more a ble, that’s just awesome. And it’s just incredible. I always smile when I see your text or seeing about committing, cause I know it’s gonna be some way that you’ve willed your way into success. And I know that saga is on a route to get there. Thank you for listening. 

Brandon: 

If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review and hit. Subscribe so that you get the episodes automatically delivered to your podcast player on a regular basis and take me up on my special offer for you, as I thank you for listening for my monthly snail mail newsletter that is packed with information on how to train your mind for success. 

Brandon: 

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Amelia: 

Get that special offer today at B, as in business success secrets dot com. That’s be success secrets dot com again, Thank you so much for tune in hits describe and until the next episode, I’m rooting for your success. 

Brandon: 

And remember, you’re just one business plan away. We’ll see you later

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