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7 Mistakes to Avoid When Sourcing and Manufacturing Products in China with Travis Rosbach Founder of Hydroflask

7 Mistakes to Avoid When Sourcing and Manufacturing Products in China with Travis Rosbach Founder of Hydroflask | Ep. 109 | Business Podcast

7 Mistakes to Avoid When Sourcing and Manufacturing Products in China with Travis Rosbach Founder of Hydroflask | Ep. 109 | Business Podcast

7 Mistakes to Avoid When Sourcing and Manufacturing Products in China with Travis Rosbach Founder of Hydroflask
7 Mistakes to Avoid When Sourcing and Manufacturing Products in China with Travis Rosbach Founder of Hydroflask

Summary

Travis Rosbach is the Founder of Hydroflask and now runs the Tumalo Group that helps select companies successfully source and manufacture products in China.

Travis joins us in this episode to share his lessons learned from years of having his products made in China.

You get his top 7 mistakes to avoid. 

If you are thinking of having products made or sourcing products for drop shipping from China this episode is a must listen. And…

Don’t miss the stinger at the end.

Find Travis at: https://TumaloGroup.com 

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More Information on Build a Business Success Secrets

Brandon: 

Hello Friends. Welcome to the show. Today, we’re welcoming back Travis Rossbach, who is the founder of hydro flask. 

Yes, that popular water bottle of which you probably own one to carry your water around and in and in that experience of building that company, Travis gained an enormous amount of experience manufacturing in China and he joined us in episode 97 where he took us on an incredible story Of how he founded hydro flask and the many companies that he owned before he embarked on that journey, some of which had nothing to do with water bottles and span the realm of a fence company to a private pilot. 

Pretty exciting stuff. He was also a dive instructor. You can tune into episode 97 to catch that full story where it’s almost hard to believe the journey had. 

And he also tells a story that he never told before about how he smuggled a boat out of Venezuela. But in this episode I asked him to come back because we started to talk about his experience manufacturing in china. And I know it’s a popular subject, my brother and I had experience doing it, it’s really hard and I asked him to come back and explain all the lessons that he learned and to give some advice to you. 

If you are looking to do manufacturing in china, you’re gonna love this episode. 

I will tell you up front. I edited the episode because Travis and I sort of have a vibe where we just start talking about things and it’s a great fun conversation, but it doesn’t always apply to the topic that we intended to talk about. 

So What I did is the 1st 35 minutes, yes 35 minutes. 

We talked about beards, how he got lost in the Bermuda Triangle, in this incredibly wild story that is worth listening to when he was a private pilot. 

And then we talk about this book that I had recently read about how the this whole idea about the primitive brain and the rational brain and the right left brain and all this stuff about the brain has actually been proved false by recent neuroscience scientists studying the brain. 

And it’s really fascinating because it will blow your mind. It changes everything that we think about when we say, oh well we’re going to apply this to the rational brain. So we went over that whole subject and then we finished up with what is the founder. So what I did is I edited out right up front when we start here in just a few seconds, You will get everything you wanted to know about manufacturing in China and some advice from multiple pieces of advice from Travis on how to do that. 

And then I put it the 1st 35 minutes. If you’re interested in that conversation as a stinger all the way at the end, you’re going to love this episode with Travis. His experience in in china is extensive. 

He still works in china. 

You’re gonna want to hear this episode if you’re thinking about doing anything over there. So without any further ado, here we go. Welcome to build a business success secrets. The only podcast that provides straight talk for entrepreneurs whether you’re an entrepreneur starting with an idea or growing your business. 

This show is for you, we’ll teach you how to build a strong mindset, powerful body and profitable business so you can achieve success and here’s your host Brandon. 

See White for the listeners out there who don’t know Travis founded among many other companies, you have to listen to the other episode to grab all those stories. 

Brandon: 

Hydro flask, which my guess is you probably have one and maybe drinking out of water out of it right now. 

Brandon: 

And along with that experience, Travis learned a ton of lessons with how to source in china, all of hydro flasks actually made in china. 

Travis: 

And Travis now helps people, you basically, I I think it’s fair to say they really have to apply. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, right? 

Travis: 

Like you just don’t, this isn’t this isn’t like Travis needs a bunch of money, this is Travis wants to help people, wants to make money but wants to work with people that are a fit and you enjoy to be with. 

Travis: 

Is that a fair assessment? 

Travis: 

That’s exactly right. 

Travis: 

Brandon. 

Travis: 

Yeah, it’s and it’s usually pretty quick that we find that out. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

Okay. 

Travis: 

Um so a lot of people and look, you know, I encourage people to manufacture in America but I’m not against manufacturing overseas. 

Brandon: 

I mean we’re in business to make money. 

Travis: 

We do need to keep America strong and there’s lots of opportunity. 

Brandon: 

But at the same token, you know, the world is a big place and it’s a world economy and and in some, some regards, you’re just not going to get around it. 

Brandon: 

So uh let’s talk about our, are you cool with talking about seven? 

Travis: 

Did you see that note I sent you? 

Travis: 

We can make those, those don’t have to be have to be it. 

Travis: 

But um let’s talk about a few of the lessons learned and advice that you would give anybody who was sourcing in china. 

Travis: 

Um because there’s a lot of pitfalls there are yeah. 

Brandon: 

Um and and again, like I, I really am all pro making in America as well. 

Travis: 

I think that if we can make it in our garage or if we can make it in Detroit and that’s what we need to do. 

Travis: 

Um I’ve also unfortunately seen that it’s just not that easy to be made in America. 

Brandon: 

It’s not that vice effective to be made in America. 

Brandon: 

We are currently working a lot with Vietnam Thailand, India Mexico south America. 

Brandon: 

Some people say africa but they’re just not quite up to speed with china, china has been manufacturing for the planet for you know, about two decades now and they’re doing it, they’re doing a really damn good job of it and they’ve got the resources, they’ve got the technology, they’ve got the manpower, they’ve got the space and that’s just where we buy from. 

Brandon: 

And so Um it is a catch 22. 

Brandon: 

But again, I mean those people have families also. 

Brandon: 

I mean there’s a lot of people who are positively affected by manufacturing in china. 

Brandon: 

And then when it gets to the shore here in the States, there’s a lot of people at the docks and the shipping and the transportation and at the pork and you know and and and on. 

Brandon: 

You know the customs and duties officers are making money because we’re shipping through the ports and so there’s a lot of people who are benefiting from it. 

Brandon: 

I agree. 

Brandon: 

So with that said, let’s talk about some of the pitfalls that can happen when you go to china. 

Brandon: 

Think one of the big ones that people uh come to me with first and foremost, top of their mind is intellectual property. 

Brandon: 

How do we protect our trip? 

Brandon: 

And um my story to that is my hip. 

Brandon: 

Well our ip at hydro flask was stolen from our next door neighbor who had a screen printing shop and he was, he was printing our bottles and he just decided he wanted to start a bottle company. 

Brandon: 

So he took the bottle and shift it over to china and said, hey, can you make this? 

Brandon: 

And, and, and eventually found in a place that said yes. 

Travis: 

And so did china knock off the bottle. 

Travis: 

Well technically, but it was the jerk right next door to me who, who actually is the one who instigated that. 

Travis: 

And so, you know, I don’t think it’d be fair to give china the bad rap on that one. 

Brandon: 

Um, but it does happen. 

Brandon: 

There are plenty of stories I’ve heard. 

Brandon: 

I worked with a lot of clients over the years that started out at a factory that they found on Alibaba or maybe I shouldn’t even say that platform, but they started out other place, they did their research and they thought they found a pretty good place to manufacture. 

Brandon: 

And next thing they knew their prices went up, their quality dropped and uh, their competition was out in the market, you know, nine months later. 

Brandon: 

And there’s a direct correlation between the factory and that, that new brand. 

Brandon: 

Um, so that does happen. 

Brandon: 

And, and I think that it’s, you know, their playbook in china is based on the art of war, ours is based more on MBS and, and, and philosophies from some of the business pioneers here in America. 

Brandon: 

And so it’s just a different mentality to begin with. 

Brandon: 

And so that’s, that’s kind of one thing that we’re up against. 

Brandon: 

So what do we do? 

Brandon: 

What is someone do? 

Brandon: 

I’ve recently read some articles that some people were putting in the contract, very specific language for these factories that they, and you can tell me if I’m wrong when I studied there, which I studied part of my NBA there. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

In shanghai and Hong kong is Off the record unofficially. 

Brandon: 

It’s very easily to print an extra or make an extra 3000 units coming off that factory line when it’s already coming off with X, Y. 

Brandon: 

Z. 

Brandon: 

Sticker. 

Brandon: 

No problem to do another one. 

Brandon: 

And I heard that they were doing that. 

Brandon: 

How really? 

Brandon: 

How are there any methods? 

Travis: 

Any things you’ve done to be able to have some defense against the IP stuff over there? 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

You know the contracts are, I don’t want to say their futile, but it’s it’s very rare that a westerner and I’m gonna just say a white westerner would walk into a courthouse in china and and make it anywhere. 

Travis: 

The general philosophy is ah ha We got you. 

Travis: 

And so the judge, it starts all the way at the tip top. 

Travis: 

And so the judge is going to have the mentality more than likely of well done to the factory for, for taking and getting one over on the white guy. 

Travis: 

And I’ve heard this over and over and over again. 

Travis: 

I was talking to somebody earlier about non disclosures. 

Brandon: 

He’s like, hey, do we need a nondisclosure? 

Brandon: 

I thought, and I told him, I said, well, it makes you feel good, it makes your investors feel good. 

Brandon: 

And yeah, you can, you should, but if you think you’re going to enforce it, then you’ve got another thing coming. 

Brandon: 

So what I do is I, well, I’ve got, I’ve got attorneys in china which helps a lot because when they see an N. 

Brandon: 

D. 

Brandon: 

A from john smith and Delaware, they go, yeah, ok, great. 

Brandon: 

But when they see somebody in Hong kong or shins in with, with that address and it’s written in, you know in traditional or simplified chinese, it holds a lot more clout and they take a lot more serious and they seriously and they see that you’re, you know, you’re playing a little bit different level. 

Brandon: 

Um but yeah, as far as overruns, that’s that is quite common and um then where do they go with it? 

Brandon: 

Well they go to Alibaba and sell them or they go to the local, you know the local market and sell them, they go to other international markets to sell them other customers come along and they’ll say, here you go, you know by this and it’s it’s just just the overrun being there in person I think helped a lot. 

Brandon: 

That was a big benefit. 

Brandon: 

But then again, I would always think like, well I’m only here for a month, I leave tomorrow, who’s to say they’re not gonna just fire up the machine and I leave, You know, like, you want to go for lunch? 

Brandon: 

Well, let’s go to lunch. 

Brandon: 

We go to lunch, would come back, who’s to say they’re not still cranking them out? 

Brandon: 

And then it’s also a matter of really having good working relationships too. 

Brandon: 

I mean, I have a really good role index of good friends that I’ve worked with for decades that I just trust and they just know that like, I don’t want to stay on their cash cow, but like I bring them business. 

Brandon: 

And so if, if I bring them business and then that product gets knocked off and there’s any way shape or form to correlate it back to them, there’s no more business coming. 

Brandon: 

And so it’s just not worth doing it once because there would be no more. 

Brandon: 

So My takeaway is one, it can happen. 

Brandon: 

You should expect that it may happen. 

Brandon: 

You shouldn’t sweat it as much unless this is some crazy patent stuff that you know absolutely has to be protected. 

Brandon: 

Find someone that works in china so that you hate to use say this. 

Brandon: 

But effectively the reason you’re effective in helping all the people that you help or doing your own business. 

Brandon: 

Um, if you come up with a product, which I know you have a ton of ideas is because you have leverage. 

Brandon: 

If they, if they jam you up, they’re going to get cut off and their competitor or Perceived competitive, whatever that is, another factory is going to get that business. 

Brandon: 

And if you’re just going there as a one off or to do a 3000 unit run or 500 unit run, you you really don’t have that leverage. 

Brandon: 

I talked to these, these, I was gonna say kids because they’re in their early 20’s. 

Brandon: 

But these guys earlier today who um, they found a middle man in America out of the state of Utah actually. 

Brandon: 

And the, the middleman guy, he says, Yeah, well you have to pay an extra $10 per item just to get in line at this factory. 

Brandon: 

And so that’s why we’re charging you so much is because you wouldn’t be in this factory without us. 

Travis: 

And, and so you’re paying a premium just to even be in this factory and and doing what you’re doing. 

Travis: 

I just thought, okay, well see this is, this is another, like this could potentially reflect poorly upon china, but it’s not, it’s the, it’s the one of people from Utah called the Italians. 

Travis: 

I don’t know, I, I don’t know what they’re called you, I don’t know. 

Travis: 

I got a lot of friends from Utah, I’m just like, hey, you’re from Utah, do we calm you to it? 

Travis: 

You told me you guitars. 

Travis: 

I don’t know, it’s weird anyway. 

Travis: 

But you know, so yeah. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

I think that, I don’t, I think that we, throughout history we need to have an adversary. 

Travis: 

It just makes good media. 

Travis: 

It just makes good press, especially when it’s a slow press day and china is, is just, has been at least historically just a really good, like you know, like a kind of a perceived threat that we can kind of just say, oh well look at, look at that, look how bad that is. 

Travis: 

But, but I, I think that that’s just completely wrong. 

Travis: 

I don’t think it’s fair to judge a whole, entire nation just by what we read in the media, really good people over there doing really good things. 

Travis: 

So finishing up on the I. 

Travis: 

P. 

Brandon: 

Can happen really need. 

Brandon: 

And I think your points are fair. 

Brandon: 

Uh you know I have a little different lands on china. 

Brandon: 

I think they do steal I. 

Brandon: 

P. 

Brandon: 

Um You know, if it happens to you, you definitely get jesus. 

Brandon: 

Um And some of it actually is true, especially on a on a nation level building. 

Brandon: 

They have for sure done that. 

Brandon: 

But from a product thing, I think your point is pretty poignant. 

Travis: 

You know, your neighbor takes the I. 

Travis: 

P. 

Brandon: 

And then takes it to china. 

Travis: 

That’s not china’s fault. 

Travis: 

That’s that’s you know the neighbor’s fault who lives in America. 

Brandon: 

And if somebody in Utah is charging an extra $10 for access which is potentially highway robbery. 

Brandon: 

Um You know that’s not china’s fault. 

Brandon: 

And and in fact china probably doesn’t even know that’s happening right. 

Brandon: 

Exactly. 

Brandon: 

So, but I think what I’m also hearing is is you’ve got to get as close to the you got to get as close to the factory as possible or find somebody like you who has built a real company and brought other business there. 

Brandon: 

And I say real company. 

Brandon: 

I just mean very high volume that the dollars mean something um And have these longer relationships and and that’s really your protection on I. 

Brandon: 

P. 

Brandon: 

It is and I will be the first to admit that. 

Brandon: 

Um In fact just last week I was watching this uh it’s kind of a really interesting Youtube channel called China Uncensored. 

Travis: 

And I the guys named chris and he was showing this I don’t know which university but one of the universities over there, one of the professors was was bragging about the fact that basically all china has been doing is taking in I. 

Travis: 

P. 

Travis: 

For the last 20 years. 

Travis: 

Yeah sure we’ll make that for you. 

Brandon: 

We’ll make that for you, we’ll make that for you now. 

Travis: 

We’re not gonna make that for you. 

Travis: 

We’re gonna go and make that for ourselves. 

Travis: 

Thanks. 

Brandon: 

And that is happening. 

Brandon: 

I I talked to somebody who works high high high up at amazon and they don’t want people to know. 

Brandon: 

But 60% Of things on Amazon are basically just a 1-1. 

Brandon: 

They’re coming from the factory, they’re going to Amazon, they’re getting repackaged and pushed back out in English. 

Brandon: 

And so it’s it’s uh it’s a very real problem. 

Brandon: 

I mean they really and then how many times I’ve heard of knockoff hydro flasks and seen knockoff hydro flasks. 

Brandon: 

I’ve been to knock off hydro flask factories. 

Travis: 

In fact one time I went to a factory and uh she didn’t know who I was and I wasn’t gonna tell her, and it was a water bottle factory, and she says, oh yeah, we make for hydro flask, like, really you do. 

Brandon: 

I said, what do you make? 

Brandon: 

And she goes, I would make all the bottles for hydro flask. 

Brandon: 

I said, you make all of the bottles for hydro plants. 

Brandon: 

And she said, yeah, she picked me back and showed me, oh yeah, they’re making knockoff hydro. 

Brandon: 

So it absolutely does happen. 

Brandon: 

I think one of the ways that I found Travis that, and I had a bad experience actually buying they’re my road, what is it Road castor pro that I do the podcast with, and actually this mike, this cage in this arm and I bought it off of amazon and believe it or not, it was a knock off road and something just like my spidey senses, for whatever reason, I don’t know one off when the package came it, you know, and and I I was like you know, I just bought a lot of equipment and I had gone to the road site to figure out the warranty and they it says don’t buy from unauthorized people and I was like why bought from amazon? 

Brandon: 

I went back and actually it wasn’t from amazon, it’s from another vendor because that’s how it gets picked of all the people that knows e commerce. 

Brandon: 

I should have known that right? 

Travis: 

But I didn’t, I called the road um rap in I think they’re in SAn Diego or in L. 

Travis: 

A. 

Travis: 

I said, hey look, you know I just bought a ton of stuff. 

Travis: 

I I just, I don’t know if it’s real that the person isn’t on your approved vendor list and I gave him all the zero numbers and sure enough it was all knocked off and all of it and I, and luckily for me, I bought it on amazon and you know, they never, I’m a big guy by everything off amazon. 

Travis: 

They actually wrote back then like, hey, what’s the deal? 

Travis: 

Like you’re returning thousands of dollars worth of stuff. 

Travis: 

I, I said, look, it’s all knockoff. 

Travis: 

Here’s the information from road. 

Travis: 

You know, you gotta get only certified people. 

Travis: 

So what I’d say to that is that if you are manufacturing in china and you want to protect your iP that you list the people who are, you have authorized to sell your goods on your site and then that’s really your protection or, or one of your best ways. 

Travis: 

Right. 

Travis: 

That’s a horrible story. 

Travis: 

That’s incredible. 

Travis: 

But it’s, but it’s true and it happens electronics all the time or, or their stolen or you know, basically not going to get the warranty and it’s not not authentic well and and like what if it was I mean radio microphones and stuff is one thing. 

Travis: 

But what if it was something you know like what this hospital equipment or what if it was a you know a product that people needed to you know an inhaler or an injection or something like that that people needed it for her life saving support or something. 

Travis: 

There was a knock off. 

Travis: 

It’s not it’s not pretty. 

Travis: 

So I think those are the ways that you could protect yourself from the I. 

Travis: 

P. 

Travis: 

Um over there. 

Travis: 

What’s another big thing that people should look out for? 

Travis: 

Um Well another thing I was just thinking about there are new um stickers that I think it’s like it’s almost like and I I’m sorry maybe I even brought this topic up because I can’t remember the name of it. 

Travis: 

But there is a new kind of like a scan Basically like a company or a brand can produce one off stickers that are very micro specific and then you can track that one thicker for its whole life. 

Travis: 

And so like if you buy, you know, you buy a new widget, you scan it, you make sure yep this one did come from the widget manufacturer, you got to sell it, then that buyer should scan it and make sure, you know, I mean, I guess we’re probably a little ways out and that’s probably not practical for all items. 

Travis: 

But the other thing I’ve seen that has happened as well as they’ll just flat out, take the copy and the photographs from websites, from the actual manufacturer and just completely replicate them, change the spelling of the website just slightly and you think you’re at the authentic because it looks like it’s authentic and yet it’s, it’s just the knockoff. 

Travis: 

May or may not give even what you’re looking for. 

Brandon: 

So as I’m listening to this, I I think for anybody out there who wants to source in china, one of the biggest things you can do is educate your consumer through your website and your social media channels that if they buy your product here is the authorized places, here’s the authentic thing. 

Travis: 

Or simply just say if you don’t buy from our website or our mini store on amazon or are many store on Etsy or Ebay or wherever else you’re selling, it’s not real and and that’s your best defense. 

Travis: 

Yeah, it was like obviously there’s fake Louis Vuitton actually Sir Mix a lot, staying a song swap, meet louis and, and but back then back in the eighties we made everything in Korea, you know. 

Travis: 

Um and before that it was Taiwan and Japan and Mexico and so we’re just at china now and that’s kind of the the other side of things that I look at is like we just as a good capitalistic nation as we are, we just kind of exploit different countries and now maybe it’s no longer time to be with china and now maybe we’re going to go on to the next ones and the next ones and I don’t mean exploit necessarily in a bad way but I kind of do as well, you know, I think that we kind of go in and we take advantage of some of the situations but then the same breath I remember very vividly showing up in china the first time and everybody road black bicycles and then later on everybody rode mopeds and then everybody had a taxi that they were riding around in and then they had like honda civics or whatever they were. 

Brandon: 

And now that we’re up to Rolls Royce and Lamborghini and I think there’s more Mercedes and BMW per capita than I’ve ever seen anywhere in the world in china right now. 

Brandon: 

So they’ve, they’ve definitely made a lot of money from it. 

Brandon: 

Well that is for sure. 

Brandon: 

I blew my mind when I studied for my M. 

Travis: 

B. 

Brandon: 

A. 

Brandon: 

In 19 I study, I was in china in 2000 and five And it blew my mind, Shanghai was the most modern city in the world, 300 million consumers at that time in China could afford luxury goods. 

Brandon: 

The average place in China was like $675,000 It was nothing like they taught this american kid in history. 

Brandon: 

I mean it is controlled capitalism. 

Brandon: 

It is not a communist. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Brandon: 

With with solar lights and solar panels everywhere and, and, and technology that’s just, I mean their cell phone technology was so far advanced over ours. 

Brandon: 

Their cue, our kids that they’ve been using for so long or just their whole everything they do is is more advanced than ours than us. 

Travis: 

And it’s incredible how we don’t know that. 

Travis: 

And yet we, you know, I guess it just doesn’t make good story. 

Travis: 

Like you know, if if we, I guess if the american consumer, the average american knew what was really going on. 

Travis: 

You know, it made changes, just powers or something. 

Travis: 

Well that’s happening. 

Travis: 

Let’s talk about a few other things. 

Brandon: 

I had some other questions. 

Brandon: 

What happens? 

Brandon: 

What is your advice If you can’t visit the factory? 

Brandon: 

Well, hire me. 

Brandon: 

And I know that’s a good answer. 

Brandon: 

It’s a fine answer. 

Brandon: 

I think the answer is I think you have to visit the factory in one way or the other with someone that you Have intimate knowledge and trust of not the person from Utah market about $10. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Well and yeah, I’ve been to another part of what, what I’ve done a lot of over the last few years is go to factories that people think are just fine and they’re very happy with and I’ll show up and it’s just like, no this is going on, this is going on, this is going on, the quality’s not great or this is there’s different tiers of factory also there’s there’s a kind of very simplistically break it down to about three categories. 

Brandon: 

You’ve got the factories that produce mainly for mainland china and they produce for africa and they produce for third world countries and that’s just kind of where their quality is and that’s just kind of where their jam is. 

Brandon: 

That’s their lane. 

Travis: 

They do hundreds of millions of pieces but it’s very low quality. 

Travis: 

And then the next tier up is like the american and european markets where we have a little bit more refined taste and we can afford a little bit more. 

Travis: 

Um but then above that, yeah the german and japanese factories in china. 

Brandon: 

And so you may think that you’re at a good american quality factory but it’s really more of an african chinese factory that they that’s really their forte. 

Brandon: 

But they don’t mind getting into the american market. 

Brandon: 

They don’t mind making things for the american market that’s that’s just not really what they’re best at. 

Brandon: 

They’re better at making lower quality products. 

Brandon: 

And you only know that from visiting the factories effectively, basically. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

And I only know that from years in the saddle and I know what to look for and I know what questions to ask and I know um the other part of that is who owns the factory, there’s also wholly owned and foreign owned and um in a hybrid thereof. 

Travis: 

So you may have the japanese that owned the factory and it’s going to be a japanese obviously quality. 

Travis: 

Um but you might have a german company that owns a third world country product also. 

Travis: 

So you think, ok, well there’s some Germans here running around but really they’re they’re cranking out the big, big numbers at low, low quality. 

Brandon: 

And so that’s another thing you have to kind of look at is who owns it, Is it a chinese person? 

Travis: 

Is it a foreign owned, like is an american or a japanese or german that owns the factory? 

Travis: 

Those all play a big part as well And you just you just figure that out from asking. 

Travis: 

Yeah you got to just know what questions to ask. 

Brandon: 

And then the other thing I that I do really well I’m just really inquisitive and I just ask the exact same question over and over and over again as many different ways as I can possibly figure to ask it and just looking for little loopholes or little inconsistencies in their answers and then and then opening opening those doors. 

Brandon: 

That makes sense. 

Brandon: 

Can you talk about? 

Brandon: 

I was um one of the things that I do remember what we were doing heavy stuff in china manufacturing clothing was the cost structure. 

Brandon: 

So there’s a cost to make it and then there’s a cost that gets you to the port in shanghai or Hong kong. 

Brandon: 

And then there’s a cost to actually land it in the U. 

Brandon: 

S. 

Brandon: 

And then can you talk a little bit about that? 

Travis: 

Because I don’t think a lot of people I can only have a little bit of fog from it. 

Brandon: 

I’m not as sharp as I used to be but those can be very misleading numbers because you get this quote from them and then all of a sudden you didn’t realize that you need another third of money because that price means something different. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Well and they’re called the Inner. 

Brandon: 

I believe they’re called the Inner Comes or the inner In our intercoms I think is what they are. 

Brandon: 

But it’s and they just came and we just had a new release back in 2020 and there’s new intercoms um I’m probably pronouncing that wrong. 

Travis: 

Um the one that you really have to there’s there’s probably at least 10 of them. 

Brandon: 

And there’s different ways to ship in different ways to buy. 

Brandon: 

The one that, you know, you really kind of want to hold on to is F. 

Travis: 

O. 

Travis: 

B. 

Travis: 

You want to get your prices, F. 

Travis: 

O. 

Travis: 

B. 

Travis: 

Which is either free on board or afraid onboard depending on who you talk to. 

Brandon: 

And what that means is that the factory is going to take the product manufacturing all the way to package it and all that, all the way through to getting the container basically, the container of the palette of the boxes all the way to the vessel and then from the vessel over, then the buyer is responsible for the rest for the shipment and the taxes and tariffs and duties, which has a lot of benefit because one of the scams that takes place is if you don’t buy F. 

Brandon: 

O. 

Brandon: 

B. 

Brandon: 

And pick one of the other acronyms. 

Brandon: 

What they’ll do is you know it might cost you $1000 to ship and it might cost them $1000 to ship. 

Brandon: 

But they’ll charge you 1500 or 2000. And they’ll just put it all into the peace price. And so they’ll say oh yeah no shipping is on us don’t worry it’s included. No problem. 

Brandon: 

But instead of just charging $1,000 included into your piece price they’re charging you whatever they like. And so you have to know your um international shipping terms as well. 

Brandon: 

So you do want F. 

Brandon: 

O. B. And then what is the price called? 

Travis: 

Or I guess the segment from the vessel to the U. 

Travis: 

S. Port. 

Travis: 

And then there’s another price that if you don’t pick it up actually I used to pick it up myself believe or not at the port, but then there’s another freight cost to get it out from that which you could use an agent for. 

Travis: 

We later learned that you should use an agent because they know the people at the docks. Can you just explain a little bit of this process? 

Travis: 

Because I think this is where people really get, you know, I don’t want to say ripped off, they get stuck. 

Travis: 

No one’s lying on the other part. 

Travis: 

They’re just not. If you don’t ask the right questions, they’re not going to answer those right? 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

They’re not going to tell you the whole truth. 

Brandon: 

So it’s really imperative to work with the shipping agent and a shipping agent here in the States, I should say. 

Brandon: 

Uh The shipping agent will typically take care of the, you know, All you need to do is you need to give them the shipping dims and waits. 

Brandon: 

The dimensions and the weights of the products being shipped. They’ll figure out what vessel works best from which port, you know, which obviously is closest to the factory. 

Brandon: 

They’ll figure out either picking up the products at the factory, getting them to the port and on the vessel and then across the pond through customs through duties through tariffs. 

Brandon: 

All of that’s already been established based on a lot of numbers and paperwork that we do beforehand. 

Brandon: 

Um But yeah, you want to have everything you and this is another thing that the Tremolo group really does well as we get all those numbers up front. 

Brandon: 

So there’s no surprises is just because it lands in Long Beach that doesn’t mean anything like now. You got to get it off of the container off the ship. You got to get it through customs, you got to get through, you got to pay your duties and tariffs and taxes and all of this and shipping and logistics and transportation. 

Brandon: 

Then you got to get it from Long Beach to wherever it’s going. 

Brandon: 

And you may not be the only thing in that shipping container, There might be other things in the shipping container. So you need to figure out, you know, logistics of that. How is it going to come out of the shipping container? Who’s going to do that? Who’s going to pay him? How do you pay him so and so forth? 

Brandon: 

And then ship it out to third party logistics company three pl fulfillment by amazon FB A, your garage, your, you know, your neighbors house, wherever you’re going to get them to. There’s all of that has to be accounted for. And that’s that’s again, that’s what we do kind of early on is we got to make sure that that’s auto because when it’s time it’s time right now. 

Brandon: 

And if, if you don’t get your stuff off the boat, you’re paying big bucks for it to get stored there and it’s not cheap to leave your stuff. 

Brandon: 

And at some point they’re just going to scrap it and burn it and say too bad. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, that’s a good point. 

Brandon: 

Because if you don’t pick it up in time and truth be told, my wife and I and my brother on our first shipment of shirts, shirts, uh, we did church, short sleeve shirts, t shirts, did regular shirts, t shirts and hats. 

Travis: 

We did it all ourselves. 

Travis: 

I was basically walking the docks in Baltimore Harbor and, and it was a good learning experience. 

Travis: 

But what it also gave us was, you know, I, I didn’t have all this, I didn’t have a Travis to call up, I had some friends who had done some stuff and sort of directed me. 

Travis: 

But this is one of those things that it is really, really complicated. 

Travis: 

And the only reason we got lucky is because we just knocked on the door of some trailer. 

Travis: 

It happened to be a shipping agent. 

Travis: 

This really nice woman clearly knew that we were out of place. 

Travis: 

It was blatantly obvious and said, hey, let me help you and that’s how we learned. 

Travis: 

But um, really at the end of the day for the entrepreneur, well, all of this stuff is important really, for, at least for me, it’s not that I don’t care. 

Travis: 

I just want to know what’s going to cost to get my product right at the, at the end of the day and make sure it gets there on time and shipping agents are not ridiculously expensive. 

Travis: 

I mean like what they do is so well worth it. 

Travis: 

There’s, I mean, I’ve just always, well I guess our first a priest, a few shipments at hydro flask, I would drive and go pick him up, but we already knew that everything had been established and taking care of and checks and balances and paid paychecks, all that, all the checks have been cleared. 

Travis: 

Um But yeah, I mean to hire someone who does that day in and day out is so worth it. 

Travis: 

I mean it’s, it’s pennies on the dollar. 

Travis: 

They know all of the best insurance companies and how much insurance because if, if, if you don’t have insurance and something happens to the vessel, um like there’s this huge scare tactic for getting insurance, but if something happens to the vessel, you may be liable for everybody else’s product as well. 

Travis: 

Like it’s there’s some like astronomically just odd thing. 

Brandon: 

And so for like I think it’s like $50 for every 500,000 you get insurance so it’s really super cheap to get insurance that’s so critical and so imperative. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

That’s that’s crazy. 

Brandon: 

So you really have to break all this stuff down and I understand if you’re listening out there, that price, that fbo price isn’t your end cost. 

Brandon: 

You still got some lines on the spreadsheet to fill out and you’ve got a bunch of people and and and I can’t remember you said pennies on the dollar really? 

Brandon: 

The shipping agent really is pennies on the dollar, isn’t it? 

Brandon: 

I’d say it’s well less than $1,000 to cover everything and that’s all of the insurance paperwork and the tariffs and duties and everything else. 

Brandon: 

I’d say it’s probably even less than $500. 

Brandon: 

Yes. 

Travis: 

So let me get up and then you also, I’m sorry. 

Travis: 

You also have to set up like bonds, you have to you know like a shipping like so if you’re going to be repeatedly bringing things in but it’s like maybe 500 bucks a year because obviously the US customs and border patrol want to know what is coming through. 

Travis: 

So if you’re gonna be doing it on the regular, you want to sign up for a bond which basically says okay yeah you know this might be my first rodeo but it’s not gonna be my last. 

Travis: 

And just so people listening out there, we’re really talking about anybody manufacturing manufacturing in china. 

Travis: 

Even if they buy off of Alibaba one of these sites. 

Travis: 

Really. 

Travis: 

Right. 

Brandon: 

I mean this applies to everybody really any country. 

Brandon: 

I mean it doesn’t really matter. 

Brandon: 

The logistics are all the same. 

Brandon: 

You’re gonna want to buy F. 

Brandon: 

O. 

Travis: 

B. 

Travis: 

from Vietnam. 

Travis: 

You’re gonna want to buy f. 

Brandon: 

And and actually there is a better f. Term that came out in 2020. 

Brandon: 

Um It’s it’s not F. B. Um Oh I can’t remember what it is. 

Brandon: 

We haven’t started using it but there is one that’s just technically better. 

Brandon: 

Um But yeah you want your prices F. O. 

Brandon: 

B. And um how about paying Travis? So actually I made a list because I wanted to get sharp again and I can’t remember what we did. 

Travis: 

I thought we sent in U. S. Dollars. Is there any game or any trick or any advantage? Just advantage between pain and you were talking about china. It could be in any currency obviously. But is there an advantage of pain and US dollars versus the juan in or the yen in china or how do you like? 

Travis: 

How do you do that? 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

Um We’ve we typically just paying us dollars. 

Travis: 

Most of the factories are, are set up to take international wires and so it’s, it’s fairly common to do after all of the prices that are negotiated and established and all of the time frames are agreed upon. 

Brandon: 

It’s fairly typical to do 50% upfront before the molds are made, another 50% of the molds after the molds are made. And those will just be US dollars uh, wired over and then they convert them into R and B. 

Brandon: 

Or young. 

Brandon: 

And um, and so it kind of takes the guesswork out. Some of the, some of the philosophy, some, you know, philosophers say, well if you, if you pay him in RMB then you save some money. 

Brandon: 

But it actually kind of doesn’t always work out that way because there’s always the exchange rate that’s bouncing around and so it’s and and and a lot of banks unless you’re with a larger bank they don’t really want to mess with with Yoon or the R. 

Brandon: 

And B. 

Brandon: 

The chinese money. They would rather just do it in in american greenbacks and then you wired over and then their bank is taking the equivalent so we get the we get the cost. Sometimes I will though I will ask I’ll say okay well how much is the U. S. D. How much is it if I was going to pay R. 

Brandon: 

And B. How many R. And B. Is that? 

Brandon: 

And you know every once in a while you might kind of save maybe a little bit but not enough to you know worry about it. 

Brandon: 

And you mentioned the payment terms as it relates to mold molds which was probably a lot of the hydro flask process. 

Travis: 

What about if you’re buying clothing or anything like that? What’s an acceptable turn? 

Travis: 

Like? I have a tendency to not want to pay. I want to hold something back until I’ve actually got it and inspected it because in my experience, it’s really hard to get money back when you’ve already paid anybody. 

Travis: 

Right. Yeah. Even your local mechanic. 

Brandon: 

Right. Yeah. So when, so with like with clothing for instance, um, sometimes there are mold costs for for clothing as well. 

Brandon: 

They need the patterns and they need, you know, the presses and the stamps or whatever it is that they’re making. So there may be a mold cost for clothes, ironically enough. But um, Usually it’s 50 upfront before production starts and then 50% when, when the productions over prior to that though, you want to get samples and with those samples looking at the samples and making sure that there are the samples you like and you want and in the contract stating that this is going to be the exact quality that we get from the sample all the way through to our very last product and nothing else in the middle. 

Brandon: 

Um and then letting them go to town on making it and then before paying the last 50 either showing up and inspecting ourselves, which is best. 

Brandon: 

Um we can use we chat video, which also now works awesome and or we have third party agents that are in china that can go in and for 150 to 500 bucks can go in and inspect factories and go in and the Equality Control, which is a very good peace of mind to have, knowing well that we can’t get there right now. 

Brandon: 

But just knowing that that they’ve been inspected by somebody who has no financial obligation to the product, they their financial their their food ishi eri responsibilities to you, the client. 

Brandon: 

And that’s what I was going to ask what your answer it is. 

Brandon: 

You need to inspect that stuff before you send that money when it’s getting on the ship. 

Brandon: 

And that really is the point of which where you are inspecting it or having someone inspected. 

Brandon: 

One of my favorite, one of my favorite stories about this was I think it was actually just last year. 

Travis: 

I was I think I was in china probably three times last year before they said no more. 

Travis: 

Um It was it was last year I was at a factory for a guy who wasn’t having good luck because he would ship directly from the factory over to fulfillment by amazon. 

Brandon: 

Amazon would fulfill the orders that go out to the customer, the customer and get it on the go, Oh wait, this isn’t all that great, something happened. 

Brandon: 

And so then the question of as well as that amazon’s fault is that the customer’s fault? Is it the factory fault? So I went to the factory, quickly realized what the problem was. 

Brandon: 

As soon as I walked up, I was like, okay, here’s the problem. We’ve got a 25 year old owner who’s driving a new Ferrari. His wife’s got a brand new BMW, his partner’s got a brand new um may back or whatever it was. 

Brandon: 

I was like, ok, and yet the quality, I mean this, this does not add up like this, the quality is just not here. These, this is not old generational money, this is new money, something’s going wrong here. And I said, okay, well I’d like to inspect some of the, there were cups that is inspecting and they said, oh absolutely first, let’s go up into the office and let’s have some drinks, you know? 

Brandon: 

So we go up and we do the whole tea ceremony and we eat the fruit and we become best friends, right? 

Brandon: 

They take me down on the floor and there’s a table set up that has two boxes on it. 

Brandon: 

And there were, there were three guys just standing there very happy. You know, they were the QC heads of QC and they’re standing there and please choose whichever box you like. I said, I said, okay, great. And it was the most amazing thing ever. I walked around the table over to the palate and I just grabbed a random box and I said, this is the one I want to inspect. 

Brandon: 

And they’re like, no, no, no. The ones on the table. 

Brandon: 

I said, no, no, You said whatever. I want to do this one. 

Brandon: 

Like, oh, could you please just do one of these two boxes, nope. I want this one. 

Brandon: 

They? Re got it. I opened it. 

Brandon: 

I reached in and pulled out a random one and there’s a dent. I was like, all right, look, you see this, this is what I’m talking about. This is why I’m here. 

Brandon: 

And yeah, we switched, we switched over to another factory, which then, you know, that’s a whole nother thing is like, okay, you’re molds are here at one factory and you’ve paid, you know about $8000 a mold. 

Brandon: 

You could have $100,000 worth of molds or $8000 worth of gold at one factory. 

Brandon: 

They do not want to give them up. They don’t want those molds going over to their competitors because they know they’re losing your, your money. 

Brandon: 

So to negotiate, getting your molds even though you’ve paid for them and on paper, everybody says they’re yours and you own them. 

Brandon: 

I’ve had multiple times where I’ve literally one time I had one of the largest men I’ve ever seen in china was hired to just roll with me and he had this brand new beautiful Mercedes and it was just a big dude. 

Brandon: 

And like I had, I had like a, like a real life bodyguard just to show up with me at this factory and to start negotiating and we were able to get them out and we had the guy show up the next day with the truck and they ran in, got the molds and got the hell out as quickly as possible. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

That’s an important point actually. 

Brandon: 

When I was making fishing lures, one of the manufacturers that I didn’t want to give me my molds. 

Travis: 

Mm And I had paid $14,000 for these molds. 

Travis: 

And I was like, listen man, this is not going to go well. 

Travis: 

But these are the, you know, this isn’t to paint bad stories. 

Travis: 

This is just for people listening, what can happen and why you need somebody who really does know what they’re doing when you’re doing this that far away because it would be catastrophic to your business. 

Travis: 

I think um Travis you even when we’re talking about this in in in in the other episode that we did. 

Travis: 

You know, I think I thought you said something that you had a bunch show up that weren’t right or something like that. 

Travis: 

I can’t remember remember, right? 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

I had been in china for one month working on uh, we had 40,000. 

Travis: 

It was our first really big order of hydro flask. It was 40,000 pieces of 1 40 ft container. 

Brandon: 

There’s a big milestone, A lot of money. Lots and lots of money and I got the flu does your, so I would go to the factory from about seven o’clock to about five o’clock. 

Brandon: 

Um and then at five o’clock did take me straight to the hospital and I would check myself into the hospital from like five until like, I don’t know, one o’clock in the morning, one o’clock I get out of the hospital, go to my hotel, sleep for a few hours and then start over and everything was working great. 

Brandon: 

You know, like I’m watching the powder coating, I’m watching the metal, everything looks good. 

Brandon: 

You know, I was I was doing my best, They were doing their best and they showed up at our door and they, some of them were rusted and some of them were not insulated and there was no rhyme or reason. 

Brandon: 

There was 18 and 21 ounce and there was about, I think maybe five or six colors and there was no rhyme or reason. 

Brandon: 

It wasn’t just the 18 ounce orange or the 21 ounce black, there was zero telling. 

Brandon: 

And so I was on the next flight back and I was, I was like, we’re done like I was, as far as I could tell, it was ruining the business and we were out of business and I walked in, I was like, I’m gonna throw you out the window like I’m done. 

Brandon: 

I have nothing more to live for. 

Brandon: 

You have taken my business from me, you know, off you go. 

Brandon: 

And of course they didn’t want to translate that. 

Brandon: 

But the guy could tell what I was saying and he said, okay, okay. 

Brandon: 

I know, I know what happened, I’ll show you. 

Brandon: 

So he takes me downstairs. 

Brandon: 

And there was these six polishing machines that had a non stainless, it was just a metal rod that had like a rubber on it and it would spin and they would ream the bottles and polished the inside of the bottles. 

Brandon: 

Well, evidently one of the machines, the rubber had come off and they were reading it with metal. 

Brandon: 

So it was, it was literally like one out of every six bottles statistically was bad because it had gone through this one machine for that amount of time. 

Brandon: 

But we had no idea like how long, you know, what’s the percentage of time on that machine versus the rest trying to equate how many bottles will be bad? 

Brandon: 

And in the end we just had to literally go through and hand pick every single one and test. 

Brandon: 

So what do you what can you Well, did they pay the money back? 

Brandon: 

Like I have a note here because I was coming up with things. 

Brandon: 

And do you put this in your contract about if you find bad things when it gets to you? 

Travis: 

I mean this is why it’s so I think it’s so important to emphasize that you’ve got to do that inspection. 

Travis: 

Don’t Not do that inspection in country because it’s too far. 

Travis: 

You don’t know someone because once you pay that 50 and it shows up, you know, I don’t I’m gonna I’m asking you what you can do in that contract, but it you know, it’s a really long way away to try to get money. 

Travis: 

It is. 

Travis: 

And so the I mean the first thing I did was I showed up at the doorstep was like, all right, you now we’re no longer just on facts. 

Travis: 

And in the early, early days of email, like now we’re going to have to deal with each other mano a mano and I’m pissed. 

Travis: 

Um That was the first thing I did. 

Travis: 

And then um that’s also when I found out that uh oh wait, I’m working with a middle man, he’s a broker. 

Travis: 

He’s not actually the factory, he’s a broker. 

Travis: 

Okay, so he found this factory and he’s working with the factory for me in my speed. 

Travis: 

What are his contracts like? 

Travis: 

Is he is he in on this? 

Travis: 

And if he’s you know, whose whose side is he on? 

Travis: 

Is he on my side he’s going to take care of me or is he on their side? 

Travis: 

He’s gonna take care of them. 

Brandon: 

And so uh the middleman, the broker, he said he said, yep, we’re gonna get you 40,000 new bottles and uh they were going to be on their way, you know, within the next month as soon as we can. 

Brandon: 

And I said well I don’t have money to pay you for 40,000 models. 

Brandon: 

And he said, well that’s ok, and I said I’d like a net 1 20 because after they land, so they land net 1 20 because statistically that’s about how long it takes to make your money back. 

Brandon: 

You give them out to, you know, ari i or any other country company. 

Brandon: 

And they’re going to say, oh well we need net 60, we need net 30, we need net 90, you know, and so you have to jump through the vendors hoops on what kind of terms you’re giving them. 

Brandon: 

So you don’t just stand out a bottle and you’ve got money in your bank the same day that doesn’t work like that in the real world. 

Brandon: 

And he said okay, yeah, I’m gonna send you a net 1 20 to 40,000. 

Brandon: 

Okay great. 

Brandon: 

So I come back to the States, I’m all you know, thinking we’re good and um the vessel got to the point of demarcation which is the line, the imaginary line, the halfway point where if there’s an emergency, they either go forward or they turn around and go back and the day before they got to the demarcation line, I got a call and said, hey we need your money. 

Brandon: 

No, no no, I got net 1 20 nope, we didn’t make that agreement, I was there with you, we did, nope. 

Brandon: 

And so they asked for the whole thing up, like the whole thing right? 

Brandon: 

Then like do within 24 hours. 

Brandon: 

Um You know, it’s like 250 grand In 24 hours. 

Brandon: 

Oh, that was, that was rough. 

Brandon: 

And that’s, you know, that’s when we had to go out and go get an investor like quickly. 

Brandon: 

And then that investor goes, okay, well how bad do you really want it? 

Brandon: 

Pretty bad. 

Brandon: 

And then with the 40,000 that were less than um you know, kind of one of the only little savings graces that I did end up getting The vast majority, you know, probably 25 30,000 of them for free. 

Brandon: 

Um And you know, I can’t remember the numbers how many were bad, but you know, we made, we made some money back from getting those free bottles and then the ones that were not insulated, we donated due to the homeless, which was great because we’re giving out really good water bottles. 

Brandon: 

They just weren’t insulated. 

Brandon: 

The ones that were rusted, we took him out to the scrap and we got like, Like $100 or something. 

Brandon: 

It’s just like nothing. 

Brandon: 

You know? 

Brandon: 

So these are the things that that can happen. 

Brandon: 

I think one of the things that you’ve said in in our last episode, which I, which I had some notes because I think it was applicable to today was you really need to be prepared to be, I’m not saying over funded, but you need to have funding when you are buying Inventory 500 pieces in China is just not a big order. 

Brandon: 

I mean someone, I don’t, I don’t even know For even maybe a trinket. 

Brandon: 

Maybe they would do 500. 

Brandon: 

But um, you know, we’re talking thousands here and if you’re going to make a go at a product, you don’t want to be dead because something happened, I’m not saying that you need to be flush with money, but you need to be prepared for something bad to happen. 

Travis: 

So that mainly because I don’t want anybody’s business just to go down the toilet because they find themselves in a situation where they didn’t have that cash. 

Travis: 

So you know, I’m not saying don’t do it. 

Travis: 

I don’t know. 

Travis: 

I’m interested in what you think like that at some level here, there is a if you don’t have enough you shouldn’t take the risk or understand that you are literally beyond gambling. 

Travis: 

Is that fair? 

Travis: 

Absolutely fair. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

I had a woman come to me a couple weeks ago and she was she was quite desperate. 

Travis: 

She said you know, I lost my job and this is my only hope. 

Travis: 

I’ve got this idea and this has got to work, it’s my last chance. 

Travis: 

And I said, Okay well you have $100,000. 

Travis: 

He said, Oh no, that’s why I’m doing this. 

Travis: 

And so I can make some money. 

Travis: 

I have, I have no more options. 

Travis: 

This isn’t gonna work, this is not, this is not the way you’re going to go get your money, This isn’t, this is not the way that it works. 

Travis: 

It takes a lot of money to make money. 

Travis: 

I say and I stand by, You could probably get by with $50,000 to get up and rolling, but you really probably need 75-100,000 for most products. 

Travis: 

By the time you pay me um you pay the molds, you pay shipping logistics, insurance, packaging designers, engineers, It costs a lot of money and then you got to get them over to where you’re going to ship them out and the third party logistics company, they require money. 

Brandon: 

It costs money to ship them. 

Brandon: 

Um even if you’re going to Amazon they’ll take money out. 

Brandon: 

So you know a lot of people make the mistake, they’ll say well I bought it for 10, I’m selling it for 20, I make 10 bucks. 

Brandon: 

There’s a lot of CAC cost of was cat stanford cost of acquisition, customer acquisition costs, acquisition cost, there’s a lot of money that’s hidden away in the in the in the minutia that people just don’t really think of. 

Brandon: 

And then the flip side of that is okay well again back to the 20 and 10, you might sell 10,000 and make 10 bucks each but you’re also gonna have to pay taxes and you’re going to have to pay for marketing and all these other expenses and then you’re going to need to order more products. 

Brandon: 

Also minimum order quantities are typically 3000 pieces. 

Brandon: 

The M. 

Brandon: 

O. 

Brandon: 

Q. 

Travis: 

Of three grand is about what you kind of want to have in your mind. 

Brandon: 

So you have to think, Okay not only do I have to have 3000 pieces money now, but I’m going to need it Very soon because it takes about 30 days to produce in about 30 days to ship. 

Brandon: 

And so you want to kind of think about your inventory also when it does take off and it does go well are going to be able to afford that as well. 

Brandon: 

And that’s that’s what we found in hydro flask is like Damn things worked. 

Brandon: 

I mean it’s sold, people wanted them well now you have to come up with $5.50 a bottle times 40,000 every single month at least once or twice a month when you want to get these 40-foot shipping containers of them. 

Brandon: 

That adds up quick and you’ve got to pay for the warehouse. 

Brandon: 

I remember the first time the shipment showed up, well it didn’t show up. 

Brandon: 

We actually got a U. 

Brandon: 

Haul and drove it from Baltimore from the dock. 

Brandon: 

And you know, I don’t want to say I wasn’t prepared. 

Travis: 

Um but you know, you don’t realize how much space 3000 units takes up. 

Travis: 

And it, my wife and I didn’t live in a big house and we did have a basement in an attic And 20 x 20 garage. 

Travis: 

And I would say that it was literally filled up and you can do that. 

Travis: 

I encourage people to do that. 

Travis: 

I know you did that too in the beginning, but understand that when you talk about inventory, this is all about cash flow at this point, right? 

Travis: 

I mean this is about managing your numbers and if you’re not good at numbers you better also put in your ironically put in your finances but at least in your equation that you’re going to hire someone who knows how to run the numbers. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

Yeah probably not still from you that meanwhile. 

Travis: 

Yeah we started out you know with 1500 bottles we hired we rented we got a reservation For a U. 

Travis: 

haul or budget truck, whatever it was and we get the call bottles are in, you got to come get them to day or else it’s $175 an hour. 

Travis: 

I mean it’s it’s a ridiculous number maybe it’s a day but it’s a lot of money. 

Travis: 

So we go down to go get the rental truck and they didn’t have it, you know it was just like no no we don’t have that truck. 

Travis: 

And so we’re like okay well what do we do? 

Travis: 

And they said what do you have? 

Brandon: 

And he’s goes we got a horse trailer. 

Brandon: 

Okay fine great. 

Brandon: 

So we rented a horse trailer and we went up to Seattle and and and got the uh got him off the off the docks there and um I guess we probably should have swept out the horse trainer first Um brought him back to Salem and put them in my my grandparents garage. 

Brandon: 

And that’s where the bottles were. 

Brandon: 

So 1500 bottles fits in a one on one side of the garage, one car garage. 

Brandon: 

Well then we got 1500 more and we were more in bend and we couldn’t drive back and forth. 

Brandon: 

So we put them in my mom’s house and then we had 5000 coming. 

Brandon: 

So we rented a 5000 ft warehouse and Then we had 20,000 coming the next month. 

Brandon: 

And then 40,000 coming the next month. So we had to knock out the wall and take over the lease on another 5000 square foot. We had 10,000 square feet of all bottles. 

Brandon: 

And then we started hiring employees. 

Brandon: 

Okay, well we’re going to put the employees, I don’t know. 

Brandon: 

So we had to then move everything up to Portland, which is a third party logistics company. And same thing with logistics companies, like if you’re small, they don’t want to mess with you. They don’t trust you’re gonna be in business next month. So why are they gonna want your business this month? 

Brandon: 

Um and how are you going to forecast? How much space do you need? I don’t know how much space does 40,000 take. Well we can do those numbers but how many of those 40,000 shipping containers do you need? I don’t know yet because we can’t do forecasting. So it’s it’s a there’s a lot of guesswork and there’s a lot of scratching the head and Kentucky windage that takes place. 

Brandon: 

But um that’s all part of the adventure. 

Brandon: 

Okay. 

Brandon: 

What? 

Travis: 

I just want to address this for those people out there that want to do fulfillment by amazon which is an answer. 

Travis: 

And they have plenty of calculators that you can calculate the cost once you get it there. 

Travis: 

But what do you think of this idea? Travis that you know there’s a lot of uh marketing on the internet that you can you know make a windfall by doing fulfillment by amazon, going to alibaba buying some product and then shipping it to amazon. 

Travis: 

And then gaming for lack of a better word you may not game it but you better be freaking actually good at it S. 

Travis: 

E. 

Travis: 

O. 

Travis: 

On amazon and doing that. 

Travis: 

Do you think? 

Travis: 

Do you really think that that’s a viable? 

Travis: 

Um. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Well I don’t want to say yes or no because I have seen it be lucrative for some people but I’ve also seen a lot of people lose a lot of money on it. 

Brandon: 

Um Drop shipping as another term that people will bring up a lot. They’ll go to Ali Ali Express. Ali Express where you can kind of by a smaller number like a one off for two or three off as opposed to M. 

Brandon: 

o. 

Brandon: 

q of 500 or 3000. And they’ll they’ll sell a product on the internet and then once somebody buys it and they get the money then they’ll go to ali Express by it from the factory and then have it shipped directly to the customer. 

Brandon: 

Um To me it’s just not like that’s just not, it just doesn’t feel clean. 

Brandon: 

It just doesn’t feel like, I mean if you’re just looking to hustle and make some money as a college student. 

Brandon: 

Yeah I’m okay. 

Brandon: 

Maybe I guess. 

Brandon: 

But that’s not a for me that’s not a business strategy. 

Brandon: 

It just doesn’t, there’s no brand behind it. 

Brandon: 

There is no soul behind it. There’s no love behind it. Like if you don’t even have your, you know I talked to one guy, he’s like oh I just have one at my house, I just bought one and now I know what it’s like but you know I saw them all day long. It’s like How do you how do you not touch and feel and inspect every single piece? 

Brandon: 

But he doesn’t have to have 3000 in this house. He doesn’t have to have any, just goes directly from China straight to the customer. And China has had a really unique, interesting a situation where the government subsidized their shipping. 

Brandon: 

So the factories will basically pay no shipping to ship a product to America because it’s subsidized by the chinese government. 

Brandon: 

Which It is incredible when you think about it because it’s like, well why do I have to pay shipping on 40,000 bottles if you guys can just shipped 40,000 bottles to 40,000 different people. 

Brandon: 

You know like how is that fair? 

Brandon: 

And why do I have to pay for a fulfillment center on this side of the pond? 

Brandon: 

You guys could just do it for me over there. 

Brandon: 

But the biggest difference is is that i it’s just not, I don’t know, I just kind of see that as yuck. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, I I tend to tend to agree, I think it’s a great place to cut your teeth. 

Brandon: 

What I tell people is, you know, don’t take a lot of inventory if you’re not taking inventory risk and cut into your point, cut your teeth on on what it’s like to sell on the internet at a low cost, but to think that you’re gonna make $10 million is unrealistic. 

Brandon: 

I heard some friends who are really good at this stuff that in general, you know, you get towards 90 to $100,000 of profit, so to speak, and you start to sort of hit a wall. 

Travis: 

Um so this isn’t, you know, $1 million. 

Travis: 

There’s there are stories of guys and women who have built really good businesses like that, but they’re they’re not the norm there, like five standard deviations from the norm, norm, actually, and they’re the ones that we all want to write about, but there’s, you know, a whole graveyard of, to your point, people have lost a lot of money doing that, so, um but it’s not a bad way to practice, but you know, that same way, if you want to practise, then go to a walmart blowout sale or Target or something like that, by yourself, some inventory and just do arbitrage and sell it on the internet on amazon, or on ebay, or something like that, to get some experience, what do you think about that? 

Travis: 

Yeah, I have clients right now who did just that, they had a concept for something, and they hadn’t seen it anywhere, so they’re starting to kind of get excited about it, and then they saw it at walmart, and they’re like, oh wow, Not only is it at walmart, but it’s like super duper cheap, it’s on sale right now, and so they bought, they bought like 1000 of this product and they took it home, they put it, they had mad amazon skills because they were very well connected to amazon, and they put it up on amazon and sold each one for like a $30 profit. 

Travis: 

It’s like they made 30 times 1000 just that quick, it was like wow, well done that. 

Travis: 

I I like those kind of stories, you know? 

Travis: 

But they can say that this is what it is, that I’m selling you, and they can look the customer in the eye and say that, yep, I know the quality because I’m holding it right here and here it comes to you, as opposed to saying, oh I don’t know who that guy is, I don’t know what’s going on that factory. 

Travis: 

But yeah, I’m just gonna go and have it shipped to you. 

Brandon: 

Good luck. 

Brandon: 

So I like that story. 

Brandon: 

I thought it was I thought it was pretty creative. 

Brandon: 

same time though. 

Brandon: 

They could have been sitting on 999 of these products if you know nobody nobody bought. 

Brandon: 

I agree. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Um so a good way to start. 

Brandon: 

Hard, hard to scale it, but you’ll cut your teeth and then figure out how to build a brand. 

Brandon: 

Is there anything else we really appreciate you taking time today? 

Travis: 

We’ve gone long. But that’s sort of norm for you and I now um is there anything else for people sourcing over in china or really to your point? Any other country that that you think we missed today? 

Travis: 

We covered the gamut. 

Travis: 

It seems. 

Brandon: 

I think the big thing just comes down to trust. 

Brandon: 

I mean you really want to trust the process and trust the people you’re working with. You want to trust the factories and you want to control as much as of the processes you can control i. 

Brandon: 

E. The shipping, the logistics. What happens when it reaches here? You want to have enough foresight to hedge your bets and cover your ass as much as you can before you even start, You know, and and and I’m not big on business plans and I’m not big on, you know, looking before I leap, but when you’re doing something as big as as business with china, it does it does really help. 

Brandon: 

And it is quite critical, I’d even say to know as much as you can ahead of time because it will happen, things will happen. 

Brandon: 

Excuse my language, things are going to happen. 

Brandon: 

And so if you can hedge your bets ahead of time the more the merrier the better. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, I tend to agree. I think um you got to run the finances on this at some level or or you’re not gonna have any finances talk about, I mean we we thought, okay, well we can afford 3000 bottles. 

Travis: 

Sure here’s you know, we got we got that money. 

Travis: 

Well, Oh wait, we didn’t realize that there was all these other ancillary costs. 

Travis: 

We ended up with only 1500 bottles and we very well may have never Seeing those other 1500 bottles. 

Brandon: 

Had the 1st 1500 got sold. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Well, cool. 

Travis: 

Well thank you so much for sharing this. How can people, what is the best way to get a hold of you? 

Travis: 

It’s not instagram. Last time we were here I said instagram. And you were like, I’m going to go ahead and get a hold of you the other way. 

Brandon: 

You sent me that note. I was like, I’ll do whatever Travis wants, but I don’t know what I was, wasn’t even smoking, definitely not. 

Travis: 

In my instagram blew up though. Like all of a sudden, all these people on my instagram, like why are people going to my instagram? Oh, shoot. And then, and then I put two and five together linkedin. 

Brandon: 

I’m on linkedin. That’s what I prefer linkedin. Travis. R O S B A C H on linkedin or the Tomorrow group to um A L O Grou P dot com. 

Brandon: 

Perfect. 

Travis: 

So hit Travis up on linkedin. I will tell you, I’ve never seen a person so responsive on linkedin. 

Travis: 

Then Travis. Sometimes I have to go there and I don’t check it enough because I get hit up by a lot of people. But best way for Travis is linked in or or directly to his website. We’ll put that in the show notes. But um, I promise that he will respond on linkedin. 

Travis: 

I will, I have to monitors and one has all my cab’s open and one of them linked in and so it goes thing and there’s little numbers that pick up. 

Brandon: 

Well, thanks so much for coming in today, sharing all this stuff and we’ll have to do another one soon. 

Brandon: 

You know, I look forward to Brandon. 

Travis: 

Thank you so much. 

Brandon: 

Thanks for being generous with your time and joining us for this episode of build a business success secrets. 

Travis: 

Before we go, let me ask you a quick question, Are you the type of person who wants to get 100 out of your time, talent and ideas? 

Travis: 

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Travis: 

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Travis: 

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Travis: 

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Travis: 

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Travis: 

And until the next episode, remember, you are just one business plan away. 

Travis: 

I’m rooting for your success. 

Travis: 

You know, I think that beard has really grown in the last few weeks. 

Travis: 

It is, it’s getting bushy. 

Travis: 

That’s like the scene, isn’t it? 

Brandon: 

I think like a prerequisite to live here. 

Brandon: 

I mean, I thought that they didn’t even let me across the border. 

Travis: 

They told me I couldn’t even come up there when I had my beard in november. 

Travis: 

Uh it was no problem crossing that border, but ever since there and it’s been a real mess. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, we’re kind of sticklers on that sort of thing here. 

Travis: 

I think it’s all all in here you meet.

Travis: 

I mean, I have never shown up to, I told you when we were talking last time, never shown up to Eugene Oregon, uh clean shaven and then received Well, I believe that 100%. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, no, there’s, there’s a, there is a, there is a very true outsider feel to clean shaven. 

Travis: 

It’s, it’s like, well, who are you, what are you doing here? 

Travis: 

What are your intentions? 

Travis: 

But I did have, uh, when I shaved off my beard. 

Brandon: 

Well, my, my wife basically said, hey, look, if you want to have and I get it because she, she’s a, I don’t know if it’s allergic, but like when that, when it touches her face, she breaks out. 

Travis: 

So I get that right. 

Travis: 

She’s like, She’s like, after 24 years, I get it. 

Brandon: 

Um, you know, you’ve got some stamina, but um, if you want to have any relationship, you’re gonna have to shave that beard off. 

Brandon: 

So I shaved the beard off and um, then Somebody said to me like, you just took 20 years off your life. 

Travis: 

I was like, did I really look that old? 

Brandon: 

I had it like shaped and cut. 

Travis: 

I don’t know. 

Travis: 

It’s weird. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

I find that to be the case too. 

Travis: 

I do look a lot younger, but then I also look at my neck and like home, I don’t like the way that my neck all of a sudden is right there. 

Travis: 

Didn’t expect that to be there. 

Travis: 

Yeah, that’s what happens when you hit those decades. 

Travis: 

I’m looking at myself. 

Travis: 

I don’t know. 

Travis: 

My uncle is a dermatologist. 

Travis: 

He’s like, yeah, you’ve got a lot of stine skin damage there. 

Brandon: 

I was like, what does that mean for the future? 

Brandon: 

But I don’t know. 

Travis: 

So far. 

Travis: 

I’ve been okay with it. 

Travis: 

I guess you can always wear a, you know, you can, this covid thing, you can just wear one of those buffs. 

Travis: 

Mm hmm, yep, yep. 

Travis: 

That’s true. 

Travis: 

That’s true. 

Travis: 

You don’t look excited about that. 

Brandon: 

I get when it just looks like a beard. 

Travis: 

I pull that up there, you my full beard. 

Brandon: 

I don’t know man because here’s the deal. You know, a lot of men can’t grow a beard like that. I could grow a beard. I don’t know if it grows as fast as yours, but um you know, growing a full beard is a lot of guys can’t do that. 

Travis: 

And a lot of people told me like that’s disrespectful for you to shave that off when I was in santa Barbara riding bikes with some guys and I was like, I don’t know, it’s disrespectful to take it off because if you can, you should. 

Travis: 

Yeah, basically that’s what they’re telling me. 

Travis: 

Like the band of Bearded Brothers is gonna get pissed out. 

Travis: 

You and x. 

Brandon: 

Neha as there as I’m riding up the hill in my tight road biking clothes and they’re riding up in sandals and flannel. 

Travis: 

Uh huh. 

Brandon: 

I don’t know man you know I love I love them but um it came off yeah I probably grow it again though in november I liked it. 

Brandon: 

It it also is warmer. 

Travis: 

It is that was another big reason. 

Brandon: 

It really honestly does keep my neck warm. 

Travis: 

Um You know because the caller in the back only does so much but to have this on the front it really does make a big difference. 

Travis: 

It helps a lot in the wintertime. 

Brandon: 

Yeah I totally agree when I was riding my bike here in the winter which and I did this stupid was a stupid it becomes stupid because it gets hard but um they do this wrath of 500 so it’s 500 kilometers which is like 321 miles between christmas Eve and New Year’s Eve and it gets cold man. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

How do you do you like camp or hotel or where do you see Now you just have to ride a total of 321 miles. 

Brandon: 

321.8 mi In that time frame which is seven days or seven or 8 days. 

Brandon: 

So it winds up being Like 37 miles a day which is totally doable until you miss a day. 

Travis: 

Oh yeah then he got seven You got 37 times two. 

Travis: 

is Yeah it adds up 74 and then if you miss that then you’re yeah it’s exponentially quicker. 

Travis: 

Yeah that’s what happens this year the beard helped me, kept in a saddle a little longer and I got done a day early wow. 

Travis: 

Yeah how’s it going? 

Brandon: 

Was that the other thing I found with the beer like I just got back from Portland and I stayed at a hotel and um you know we went out to restaurants and that whole thing and I, and I thought you know like I got home yesterday and I had a headache, like why does my head hurt? 

Travis: 

And I realized it’s because the shampoo and conditioner I’d used at the hotel, I can just smell it At first. 

Travis: 

It smells great in the morning and by 3:00 it was awful. 

Travis: 

But I realized like all of that energy is kind of stuck in the beard too. 

Brandon: 

And so I think cutting it would be good just to kind of like energetically, you know, Clinton’s hygienically not just like energetic, energetically hygiene, energetic hygiene is what I’m thinking about. 

Brandon: 

Well you know if I had that, I’ll just go get a fade and have them shape it and nothing will be sick. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

Yeah, I think and, and there is one barber here and sisters that actually will still cut beards because my regular barber was like, nope, not cutting beards because the health department and shut him down so he just does the sides, but he can’t do anything else. 

Brandon: 

That’s all you really need is a side. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

I’d like to, I’d like to get it like I’d like to have it properly done. 

Travis: 

That’s what I did. 

Brandon: 

It made all the difference. 

Brandon: 

It like made me look stylish was supposed to homeless. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, pretty much. 

Brandon: 

Uh well today we’re gonna talk about and I’m really grateful for you coming back on and lending us your expertise. 

Brandon: 

Everyone loved our talk before. 

Brandon: 

Um, you know, smuggling, how can I don’t even know how you top, It’s sort of like the sequel. 

Travis: 

I mean smuggling a sailboat out of Venezuela. 

Travis: 

How do you even top that? 

Travis: 

Yeah, well I was thinking about that last night about other stories. 

Travis: 

I was thinking about like flying through the Bermuda Triangle and losing all the instruments and my fuel all of a sudden ran out and stuff like that. 

Brandon: 

But I was thinking like, what would be cool if I really had like, you know, if I can tell you the airplane I was in and tell you exactly the town I landed in and then wearing the commons. 

Brandon: 

I went like, I need to get a little bit more refined on the actual, you know, bits and pieces sometimes. 

Travis: 

I think can I build a like a story line about it? 

Brandon: 

You know, I don’t know, like practice, but does that really happen? 

Brandon: 

You’re, you’re serious about that? 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

I took off this guy, I was flying in ST Croix with the guy who was I think it was a beech bonanza. 

Travis: 

Was Quinn bonanza. 

Travis: 

I think it’s what it was. 

Travis: 

I have to check my logbook and he uh he’s like, yeah, I needed it up in Fort Lauderdale. 

Travis: 

We’re selling it or maintenance. 

Brandon: 

I can’t remember what I think is maintenance because the right engine kept going out. 

Brandon: 

He’s like, I needed in Fort Lauderdale. 

Brandon: 

I just got my twin engine license and I had never really flown by myself much at all in the twin and I was like, yeah, I can totally do that, no problem. 

Brandon: 

And took off I did, you know I planned, okay, I’m gonna go from ST Croix to Puerto rico, The north side of Puerto rico, I’m gonna get fuel and that should last me all the way up to Fort Lauderdale, no worries. 

Brandon: 

I leave Puerto rico, get into the Bermuda Triangle and I wasn’t like scared or anything and I wasn’t lost but I didn’t know where I was, but I could, you know, and I knew when everything was working, that if as long as I go along these islands, I’m kind of going that direction, I’m as happy, I’m just kind of looking out, looking out of the water and the islands and stuff flying, you know, probably 1500 ft or so. 

Brandon: 

And then the GPS went out, the whole, all the instruments went out. 

Travis: 

The even the whiskey compass started going around, you know, just the ball compass started going around like, well this is crazy And it lasted for not a long time, maybe 2025 minutes. 

Brandon: 

And then when I got out of it and it came back on, my fuel gauge was completely empty. 

Brandon: 

Oh, jesus. 

Brandon: 

So I pulled into the commons, got fuel and then came on into Fort Lauderdale and I land at Fort Lauderdale. 

Brandon: 

The right engine goes out as soon as I land right on the like touch boom engines dead okay. 

Brandon: 

And then I’m coming around and this is just right after, I mean this is probably 2002, so not too long after 9 11 and I got swarmed by like swat like the Fort Lauderdale. 

Brandon: 

Police surrounded me because I didn’t file a flight plan into the commons, I just land, just landed there to get fuel and you know, they’re hailing me on there, you gotta pull over and like I got a dead engine, I’m gonna go ahead and I’m gonna go to the hangar, you guys can come get me there. 

Brandon: 

And so I show up at the hangar, they surround me and what are you doing? 

Brandon: 

I lost my engine and I was all pissed and they’re like oh well did you what were you doing The Caymans? 

Brandon: 

I lost my fuel in the Bermuda Triangle and they’re like oh oh yeah well then that’s okay no problem. 

Brandon: 

They don’t even check the plane. 

Brandon: 

They just kind of like all right so you I mean you hear these stories and it’s just incredible. 

Brandon: 

Like you went into the Bermuda Triangle with enough obviously enough fuel to get to where you’re going and you come out of there and you literally when they filled up it was filling the tank, the wings the tanks and they were empty. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

I mean I was I was with I mean I was I don’t know if I was the one pumping in Puerto rico or if I was at least you know I don’t you never trust the fueling person right? 

Brandon: 

You always have to check yourself and you always got to make sure you’re the one the pilot the P. 

Brandon: 

I. 

Brandon: 

C. 

Brandon: 

Is doing the caps and the whole nine yards. 

Travis: 

So I knew I had full feel but I mean completely topped off and from all of my planning and everything I triple you know I mean I was up for hours and hours doing triple and quadruple checking my numbers because that’s not my strong suit and I know that I was doing it over and over. 

Travis: 

No problem Puerto uh Puerto rico to to have fort liquor dale. 

Travis: 

No worries. 

Brandon: 

Um I couldn’t even make it past the commons. 

Brandon: 

So something happened, something happened in there. 

Brandon: 

I mean does that freak you out a little bit? 

Brandon: 

I think it I think in hindsight what I think about that is like was there lost time? 

Brandon: 

Like where was i, what happened, what happened now that that happened then? 

Brandon: 

Like what are the ramifications of such thing? 

Brandon: 

Do you think it could have been a time warp? 

Travis: 

I don’t know, I don’t know. 

Brandon: 

But I mean these stories are not uncommon, like I mean this is an uncommon story in the realm of life, but for the Bermuda Triangle, I mean I watched the whole thing on either naturally or whatever it was. 

Brandon: 

I mean this is like legit and this happens to boats. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don’t know what it was, everything just went completely walking. 

Travis: 

But I actually also, I remember feeling a very like real sense of calm, remember kind of looking down and gun well if I go down in the water, I’m just going to prop the door open, I’m gonna swim away as best I can take my boots off so, you know, they don’t sink me down and I’m gonna be okay, You know, I’ll just kind of swim up to one of these islands and I’ll be all right. 

Travis: 

And the next thing I know like gauges are working and no great because what happened with the GPS was interesting is that it kept rebooting it though and so it was it wasn’t a glass panel by any means, but I had a big chunk of glass uh GPS screen or whatever and it just kept rebooting, it was like reformatting and you know, you watch the little progress bar and then all of a sudden be like, okay, you know, it should be working now, nope, and it shut back down and turned black and then it start over at zero moving up and yeah, I guess at that point I’d flown so much and I’d come so close to auguring in before that it kind of didn’t make me as nervous as like you know like that story had probably freaked my mom out if she heard it. 

Brandon: 

No. 

Brandon: 

Well yeah I mean flying you have some experience that doesn’t freak you out as much but the fact that you know you’re in the Bermuda Triangle and that that’s happening and now looking back on it, how did the gas disappear? 

Brandon: 

I mean you must something must must have happened that now. 

Brandon: 

Could you see the, I’m curious could you see the ground during this whole time? 

Brandon: 

Oh yeah I wasn’t very high. 

Brandon: 

I I don’t I think I want to say like between five and 1500 ft. 

Brandon: 

I’m sure I was flying the I can’t remember what the north South. 

Brandon: 

You know I was playing fairly north and south. 

Brandon: 

I don’t remember, is that at 500 but increments differences, I can’t really remember that. 

Brandon: 

But I was I was probably at a minimum level uh at the time. 

Brandon: 

And um at first I was above the clouds and then when that happened I went down below the clouds and just stayed just still real low and just kind of Yeah, that’s crazy. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, because I’m just curious because when when you drive a boat in the fog and this, this can obviously happen in the plane. 

Brandon: 

Uh But the point is is that in a boat in the fog, what can happen to people? 

Brandon: 

And it does happen unless you actually navigate by instruments in your compass is you’ll do a circle. 

Brandon: 

Yeah, because you because your brain feels the wind has no sense of direction now in a plane, that’s how a lot of people die. 

Brandon: 

But my point in telling the story is it actually happens in the water as well. 

Brandon: 

It can happen in your car unfortunately as well, because you could drive off a road, but in the water and I remember, and it happened one day, a guy friend of mine was driving the boat and I was like, you’re doing a circle man, he’s like, you drive and it’s because not a lot of people can drive off of an instrument or believe it, right. 

Travis: 

Well that’s that’s the big thing that we learned in training was you have to believe the instruments because I think it’s called, is it the sill Celia are the hairs and your ears, the inner ear cecilia. 

Travis: 

And when they tilt over, if I’m saying this correctly, I think that when they kind of tilt over, you know, okay, I’m leaning to the left, I’m leaning to the right, but if they’re over enough long enough, then it just feels like it’s upright and so you could be tilting iii going in that circle, but you feel like you’re straight, you feel like the still young still you are up, but they’re actually tilting. 

Travis: 

Yeah, I saw and if you ever seen that YouTube video of the, I think the guys in a 152 Cessna or something was not a twin engine, I don’t think. 

Travis: 

But he shows a wine glass on, on top and he’s upside down and there’s no wine falling out and you would think otherwise that you were right side up and he’s basically on his way to the ground. 

Travis: 

He’s doing it on purpose. 

Brandon: 

But um, you know, it just goes to show you you think you are perception. 

Brandon: 

Actually. 

Brandon: 

I was reading this book um it’s called 7.5 essays about the brain. 

Brandon: 

And it’s a new book and it will blow your mind and here’s why I’ll get you the author. 

Brandon: 

She’s uh psychologist out of I was just telling somebody about this the other day. 

Brandon: 

It’s uh sorry 7.5 lessons about the brain and it’s bye lisa Feldman Barrett. 

Travis: 

And with the new technology that’s available now, not just with M. 

Travis: 

R. 

Travis: 

I. 

Travis: 

S. 

Travis: 

It’s deeper than that. 

Travis: 

It’s on the cell cell level. 

Travis: 

They basically have proved proven that this whole primitive you know you’ve heard it to you running hydro flask or any of your other companies and marketing they you know or even when they do training they’ll say your primitive brain does this you know your rational brain actually that’s all wrong mm. 

Travis: 

All of it which starts to blow your mind because what also the right left brain thing really Not true at all really? 

Travis: 

The fact that different regions of your brain and I studied I got a master’s in psychology and they taught this because that was what they knew. 

Travis: 

Which was that certain regions of your brain are responsible for vision, certain, responsible uh certain for hearing. 

Travis: 

And what they’ve been able to show now is that that’s not true because they will blindfold someone and they will lose sight for two days. 

Brandon: 

Say that they’re simulating this in the lab scenario and those cells actually change over to give I’m going to call it computing power. 

Brandon: 

Probably not scientific word but to hearing and touch because those are the senses that the that the human body now needs to compensate that region doesn’t just go dead. 

Brandon: 

Mm And it’s been blowing my mind lately. 

Brandon: 

I want to have her on the podcast because it fundamentally changes. 

Brandon: 

Uh huh. 

Brandon: 

That’s uh my guy who’s building, can you hear that little bit, a little bit uh finishing my studio? 

Travis: 

Which was supposed to be done. 

Travis: 

My recording studio was supposed to be done in january. 

Travis: 

They say which year? 

Travis: 

You gotta look at the fine print on that. 

Travis: 

Yeah, I’m not amused by it but uh not by you but by them. 

Travis: 

The but no, they didn’t tell me the year but I probably should ask that next time. 

Travis: 

The but if you think about this with the brain, it fundamentally changes how you even think about marketing. 

Travis: 

But I haven’t figured out how it changes it. 

Travis: 

If you can still do the same thing, but it’s just explain differently because people will say, oh well you you know, you sell to the emotions and then the rational brain rationalizes it. 

Travis: 

Well that’s that’s not true any, it’s not how the brain works actually. 

Travis: 

So doesn’t that like change everything? 

Travis: 

Uh, wow. 

Travis: 

Yeah, boy, that is fascinating. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

Because if we’re wrong about that, we could be wrong about everything. 

Travis: 

You see, I’m sorry. 

Travis: 

And yeah, you are right. 

Travis: 

And here’s another thing which has been known but not proven to this extent. 

Travis: 

Your brain basically gets used to things. 

Travis: 

And when it sees something, it recognizes meaning, a behavior in someone else, a movement it takes over and plays what it thinks is going to happen versus perceiving reality. 

Travis: 

Uh huh. 

Travis: 

Mm hmm. 

Brandon: 

So they she uses an example that this soldier they were, I don’t know, this was sometimes you have to got to read the book, but um, anybody listening, I highly recommend it. 

Travis: 

I don’t have any, I don’t have any financial interest in this book. 

Travis: 

This is just incredible to me that and it affects business greatly. 

Travis: 

Right? 

Travis: 

So this there’s this soldier and they are they they’re they’re going into enemy territory and the guy picks up his gun and is going to shoot what he thinks and perceives is an enemy force. 

Travis: 

A guy puts his hand on his shoulder and he said, what are you doing? 

Travis: 

He’s like the enemy is right there. 

Travis: 

He’s like, that’s not an enemy. 

Travis: 

That’s a kid with a herd of goats. 

Travis: 

Oh, so this guy’s brain is seeing what he wants to see and his brain is taking over and saying that’s it. 

Travis: 

And you see that your brain reality is not reality. 

Travis: 

It’s what it’s your reality, but it may not be the reality. 

Travis: 

Yes. 

Travis: 

Case in point to that. 

Travis: 

I don’t know if we talked about this before, but um we had, I owned some property in in to melo Oregon and we had a fire about a mile and a half from my property a couple weeks ago and I have my daughter with me in the back of the truck and hindsight. 

Travis: 

Yeah, I’ve got my daughter probably not the best thing to do, but I drove into the fire to go rescue people. 

Travis: 

And um the first house I came upon there was a man standing looking at the fire and it was coming at him and he was literally standing there watching the fire come and I said you know, I had to shock him like dude you gotta go save your wife and animals, you got to get your stuff and get out man. 

Travis: 

He kind of looked at me like, oh yeah, yeah, I guess I should, huh? 

Travis: 

Like yeah, now is the time you got to go? 

Travis: 

And um I talked to three or four people who, when that panic set in, they just froze. 

Travis: 

They just, you know, they were still moving, they weren’t like literally just hugging a tree but they were not doing the right things. 

Travis: 

Some people were trying to hook up a trailer and the one guy was going the wrong way, so he’s cranking the trailer up versus damn. 

Brandon: 

The other lady was trying to hook up the wrong pieces And they were, they were in this panic ST and it was really, it’s fascinating to me to watch that in action that fight, fight, fight flight or freeze and how people can actually do all of it at the same time and still not do anything properly. 

Travis: 

And in that book, she actually talks about this and as it turns out, what you just described sounds to me as the people, we’re not gauging the amount of danger that was actually happening, happening and what you just described, which you said, I’m not really sure in hindsight, it’s smart, but I’m driving towards the fire to save people is actually what happens to your brain when you perceive extreme danger. 

Travis: 

So, so I’m not disparaging or or saying anything bad about, they’ll say, um when a police officer or, you know, a military person or whoever that is goes or a firefighter goes towards that extreme danger, that that’s an act of courage. 

Travis: 

I’m not saying that it’s not all I’m saying is that’s actually what the human brain does. 

Brandon: 

So when it when it perceives that extreme danger, it actually runs towards things, it’s when you find yourself in these increments behind that, that you actually freeze or run, and this is fascinating, Yeah, in the increments before that, how do you mean? 

Travis: 

So let’s say you, let’s use this fire example, you saw a fire and you perceive that as extreme danger that people could die. 

Brandon: 

And somewhere in your brain you decided to run towards that because that is, let’s say let’s use a scale. 

Travis: 

So that’s a 10. 

Travis: 

1 to 10. 

Travis: 

10 is extreme danger. 

Travis: 

One is, you know, told pretty much safe. 

Travis: 

You, you whatever, your brain sympathetic Nervous system, whatever happened there said this is a 10. 

Travis: 

And when you’re when, when that happens, the human brain takes the body towards the danger. 

Brandon: 

For whatever reason, I can’t remember the whole story behind this, but she goes through this whole the whole science. 

Brandon: 

But if you find yourself at a seven Or eight or 6, you actually may freeze and if you find yourself in a five, you actually may run. 

Brandon: 

It’s this weird thing that goes back to the Cayman or something at some level that I guess if you see in danger you’re going to run at it to protect yourself because you’re not sure that you could actually run away. 

Travis: 

That’s probably not read the book to get the details. 

Travis: 

If you’re listening here, don’t take this as the complete cliff notes. 

Travis: 

But the general concept that I’m describing is what it is. 

Travis: 

I actually read the book and then I got the book on audiobook and listen to the book 1.5 times because it’s so fat, it just keeps blowing my mind. 

Travis: 

That’s awesome. 

Travis: 

I love those kind of books, listen to him at two times or anywhere from 16 to 182 times speed while I’m looking at the book and then that way I can highlight an underlying and I can concentrate a little bit better also. 

Brandon: 

So I find I’m reading it probably five times the speed that I typically read. 

Brandon: 

And it’s helping me a lot get through a lot more books rapidly. 

Travis: 

Well, that’s interesting. 

Travis: 

I actually have not heard that it was uh I can’t remember who birth said it and I thought, oh, that’s kind of interesting. 

Brandon: 

And then it took me about a year before I actually executed it and it’s like, oh yeah, boy, if I would have been listening to audible with my hardback book open years ago, like I would have got through way more books and I think that my retention might be better also because I get to hear it and read it and with my tactile sensation, although then there’s people who say, oh no, underlining doesn’t actually do anything. 

Travis: 

But for me then I got to go back to my bookshelf, I got to open up the book and I get a look and say, oh I underlined this because it’s important. 

Travis: 

And so now I remember that it’s important, you know? 

Travis: 

Yeah, I do. 

Travis: 

I actually, my books are completely marked up. 

Travis: 

We paid for them. 

Travis: 

We should be able to do what we want. 

Travis: 

Well, I don’t know what people do. 

Travis: 

People not like that underlining. 

Travis: 

Yeah. 

Travis: 

Right. 

Travis: 

Some people don’t, some people say it’s, you know, I don’t know what they say. 

Travis: 

I don’t my books are like tape, all the books I read are generally unless it’s uh fiction, I’m going to take notes. 

Travis: 

And even in fiction, I find passages that I might use for something else. 

Travis: 

So how would I find, like, look at your bookshelf. 

Travis: 

How are you going to find that? 

Travis: 

Yeah, by an unmarked book. 

Travis: 

I don’t uh not to me, that’s the value of the book, is that I get to go back and reference it again and again and again and again. 

Travis: 

When it is time, when it’s relevant, for whatever reason, I think that’s a compliment to the author. 

Travis: 

Not not degrading the work, you know? 

Travis: 

Have you heard of him? 

Brandon: 

The sink. 

Brandon: 

That’s the other thing I was thinking about when you’re talking about the right side and the left side of the brain, the Monroe Institute, um Dr Monroe came up with these, I don’t know that. 

Brandon: 

It’s buying mary beats, I shouldn’t say by in there because I don’t know if it is, but it might be it’s it’s basically the concept was and now I’m hearing this now, my whole worlds lift upside down. 

Brandon: 

But the right side of the left side of the brain is the only side that gets really used at once and were more prominent on one side or the other side. 

Brandon: 

So what this hemi sync does is it think both the sides of the brain so that you’re using your more full option. 

Brandon: 

Like you get more more out of it. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

I think this new work with what they’re able to tell, it’s just I haven’t processed it. 

Brandon: 

I honestly Travis I’ve been thinking about this for however since months because because I don’t know how it funded, I know it fundamentally affects all of the thought. 

Brandon: 

The thought behind things of why it’s structured. 

Brandon: 

But then I’m asking myself doesn’t matter right like does it maybe that’s just how human described it but it still works. 

Brandon: 

I don’t maybe and maybe that’s completely wrong and there’s this new way that we could be doing it that would be doing it better almost. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

Yeah. 

Brandon: 

You know Simon Sinek, do you listen to him? 

Brandon: 

No Simon has this, he’s a really cool dude. 

Brandon: 

And um I’m always the easiest psychologist as well but has this thing called the golden circle theory and it’s not unique to him but it talks about the difference in marketing. 

Brandon: 

So When Microsoft markets it says Hey Travis we’ve got this brand new computer, it has 556 RAM. 

Brandon: 

It has um you know a graphics card that four GHz. 

Travis: 

It has You know this that and the other it’s $399. 

Travis: 

Do you want to buy one? 

Travis: 

And that’s how they market, it’s basically functions and features right? 

Travis: 

But Apple doesn’t market like that. 

Travis: 

They say Travis we think differently. 

Travis: 

We just so happen to make a phone, a computer, ah an ipad watch, are you interested? 

Travis: 

And then they and then they’ll say it’s beautifully designed, it’s easy to use. 

Travis: 

Do you want to buy 1? 

Travis: 

And he will explain that you have now gone in through the emotional brain and it’s not functions and features. 

Travis: 

It’s but here’s the thing if you well I believe the book because she’s modern scientists. 

Travis: 

If you believe that, then that’s an interesting way to describe what happens. 

Travis: 

But it’s actually not how the brain works. 

Travis: 

Mm. 

Travis: 

So what is that? 

Travis: 

What is the implication of that? 

Travis: 

Well then how would Apple do things differently if they take the pre existing model and then add her science to it? 

Travis: 

How could they be even more effective? 

Travis: 

That’s it. 

Travis: 

All of us. 

Brandon: 

Like how how can we redo our messaging, our marketing? 

Brandon: 

Mhm. 

Travis: 

Our copy, all of it. 

Travis: 

I mean all of it, it’s a fascinating I really like this. 

Travis: 

I’m telling you I’ve been struggling with it because I’ll take a stab at it with you. 

Travis: 

I’m excited. 

Travis: 

Oh well what we are supposed to be talking about today is uh sourcing in china. 

Travis: 

I sent you a note just to get our juices bone and you have a ton of experience for anybody who doesn’t know Travis is the uh, should I say, co founder or founder? 

Travis: 

I’ve been just using founder because I heard your story. 

Travis: 

I really didn’t like it. 

Travis: 

I didn’t, not that he didn’t like your story. 

Travis: 

I felt like you really were the person. 

Travis: 

How do you describe it? 

Travis: 

Its founder? 

Travis: 

Um, and I struggled with this for a long time and then I finally googled it and there was my answer, basically, the founder, you know, and I’m paraphrasing and I’m going to devote to rise it, that’s a good word. 

Travis: 

Um the founder is usually the one who came up with the concept, or the passionate one who had the vision. 

Travis: 

The co founder could be somebody who came along, you know, secondarily, and then joined. 

Travis: 

I like that. 

Travis: 

And I’ll be honest with you, Travis, I I struggled with it in the beginning because I had a person not unlike your story in my first, like, official company after the Lemonade Stand, um that we all had, but the, you know, Yeah, I mean the person who comes up with its a founder.

Travis: 

Yeah, yeah. 

Travis: 

So it’s, yeah, so there’s, I don’t know that it’s really At least from this definition that I saw it, I don’t know that it’s possible to have more than one founder. 

Travis: 

Everybody will kind of start a business together with, you know, 1-5 people. 

Brandon: 

But Theoretically, technically it’s one founder and four co founders

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